st marys bishopbriggs re st marys industrial school.....

[Currie]

Hello Maceill,

Occasionally there are newspaper reports of children being taken into care but I couldn’t see anything for your couple.

Parliamentary Papers has “1883 [C.3716] Twenty-sixth report of the inspector appointed, under the provisions of the act 5 & 6 Will. IV. c. 38., to visit the certified reformatory and industrial schools of Great Britain.”

In the list of Industrial Schools near the beginning of the document the two Abercromby Street schools are shown as:

Roman Catholic Orphanage and Industrial School for Boys, 72, Abercromby Street, Glasgow. Certified November 25, 1862. C.M., Rev. Willliam Caven, 58, Charlotte Street, Glasgow.

Roman Catholic Industrial School for Girls, Abercromby Street, Glasgow. Certified November 25, 1862. Manager, The Sister Superior.

Inspections appear at that time to have been carried out once a year. The June, 1882, inspection reports were set out as hereunder. The June, 1883, report mentioned that there had been three deaths of girls in the year from lung disease. The reports will give you a bit of an idea of what the place was like, at least from an official point of view.



St. Mary’s Orphanage for Roman Catholic Boys, 72, Abercromby Street, Glasgow.
Inspected June 14, 1882.
Number of inmates on day of inspection, boys, 238, and a few on license.

State of' premises.—I found the premises in very good order; clean and wholesome throughout. Careful supervision and greater attention paid to the children than heretofore. The dormitories very neat and clean. Artificial heat is introduced for the winter. Lavatory much improved, clean and dry towels regularly supplied. The younger children require very particular attention, and need a larger share of female supervision and tenderness than they at present enjoy.

Health and general condition. —A better medical report this year. Only one death in 1882 against 10 in 1881. The winter happily was very mild. Cold is the deadliest enemy of the poor enfeebled children received. Keep them warm by night and by day and you may preserve their lives. A few cases of ophthalmia, a few acute cases of bronchitis and pnuemonia, some scrofulous cases and constitutional debility. Boys generally in fair health and improving, and in good spirits. Many of them very young.

Conduct and discipline. —Fair. Boys in good order and going on well, but rather a long list of faults and offences. This might be much reduced by a well considered system of marks, including rewards and encouragements of various kinds. No school of this kind can be said to be properly organized without a system of marks and rewards, by means of which the progress and conduct of every child can be recorded and properly watched. A good many cases of insolence, petty theft, and profane language, and a few cases of absconding. One serious case of stabbing with a knife, several of quarrelling and bullying. Not much serious disorder. Boys quiet and well behaved.

Educational state. —I took the forenoon division for examination. 20 in Fifth Standard: very fair reading and spelling; boys a little too quiet; writing good; dictation four failures; arithmetic only moderate. 30 in Fourth Standard: good reading and spelling; writing very good style; dictation only one failure; arithmetic very good; an intelligent class. 23in Third Standard: very fair results. 32 in Second Standard: good progress; only one failure in arithmetic. 30 in First Standard: Boys well grounded. Order good.

Industrial training. —Much attention paid to the industrial occupation. It comprises good shops for tailoring, shoemaking, wood chopping, and paper bag manufacture. Steam power is used. There is a good band, and the boys are systematically drilled. The shops are airy and commodious, and the boys work heartily.

Staff. —Chaplain and director, Rev. W. Caven; superintendent and matron, Mr. and Mrs. Lewis Mackenzie; school teachers, Messrs. W. Devine and Morris; tailor, two shoemakers, joiner, van man, house man, paper-bag maker, bandmaster.

Average number of boys and girls maintained, 442. Total cost for 1882, 5,778l. 14s. 1d.
Comparative cost per head on ordinary maintenance and management, 13l. 1s. 6d.
Net cost per head, including profit or loss on industrial departments, 13l. 1s. 10d.
Industrial profits, 315l. 18s. 1d.
Results on cases discharged in the three years 1879, 1880, and 1881. —Of 148 discharged in 1879-81, there are doing well 120, dead 5, doubtful 7, convicted of crime or re-committed 8, unknown 8.



St. Mary’s Orphanage for Roman Catholic Girls, 72, Abercromby Street, Glasgow.
Inspected June 14, 1882.
Number of inmates on day of inspection, girls, 205.

State of premises. —I found the house and premises in good order and repair. The accommodation for the children is suitable. The sanitary condition of the house had been carefully investigated and some improvements introduced where found requisite.

Health and general condition. —Very fair. Most of the children looked remarkably well. Two deaths in 1882. A few cases of ophthalmia, some acute cases of bronchitis and congestion of the lungs, a little rheumatism also; one case of enteric fever. A good many bronchial attacks in the early part of the year.

Conduct and discipline. —A favourable report on the whole. The elder girls were more in hand, and better discipline throughout the school, while there was no want of kindness or good treatment. A few eases of stubbornness and disobedience. Some of untruthfulness and petty theft. A few of insolence and rudeness to superiors. One case of attempted absconding. I found the girls well behaved and orderly, and apparently happy and contented.

Educational state. —5 in Fifth Standard: and 20 in Fourth Standard: all reading intelligently and well; writing very good; dictation only two failures; arithmetic very good and accurate results. 25 in Third Standard: reading and spelling very good; writing excellent; dictation exceptionally well done; arithmetic very fair. 36 in Second Standard: 33 in First Standard: all making fair progress. Below them a large number of very young children in an elementary class, quite an infant school of 80 children or more. Order well maintained.

Industrial training. —The elder girls are engaged in the laundry and wash the clothing of the boys as well as the girls, all are carefully instructed in plain sewing and knitting. Good specimens of needlework were shown to me. The kitchen work for the boys as well as for the girls is carried on by the girls and supplies much employment.
General remarks. —The girls’ school appeared to be very well managed, and the children to be receiving the greatest care and kindness.

Staff. —Superioress (Madame Ursula McNally) and seven sisters of the Order of' St. Francis; four assistants to help in the kitchen and laundry; a chaplain attends regularly.

Expenditure included in boys’ accounts.
Results on cases discharged in the three years 1879, 1880, and 1881. —Of 115 discharged in 1879-81, there are doing well 108, dead 2, doubtful 2, convicted of crime or re-committed 2, unknown 1.



There’s some pictures of the orphanage here http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/searc ... &id=187957

Hope that’s useful,
Alan

[maceill]

Thankyou so much for the info Alan ,my relative could be one of the girls who died from congestion of the lungs, will have to find out if my grandfather was in the boys school. Today it would be 129 years since Bridget Alice died
once again many thanks
maceill

[piperdanny123]

Hya piperdanny123 here did you get the address for St Marys I sent you the other day. I think I also told you I was in there in 1961-1962 for 18months if I can help you in anyway just let me know. Thanking you. piperdanny123

[maceill]

Hello piperdanny, thankyou i got the address, while you were there was the graveyard still there, because Bridget Alice was buried there till they removed all the dead to St Marys Bishopbriggs, just wondered if there is a list of the dead they removed,Also i have never found a census for St Marys Abrcromby street. once again thankyou
maceill

[piperdanny123]

Hello again I've just noticed the names that you're researching and noticed Boyle amongst them, it probably means nothing but I'm called, Boyle and since I got my wee laptop recently I've been wondering how you do research as my grandparents on my fathers side were from Ireland and I've often wondered about them as I'm curious about these things, anyway it probably does'nt mean anything just thought I would let you know. piperdanny123

[maceill]

Hello piperdanny,.i have been researching my Boyles and Currans for at least six years as they came from Ireland it is very hard to pin them down, i was lucky that i manage to find a birth certificate that led me to a village in Donegal , Ballymore Teelin. Trying to find siblings of Peter Boyle and his wife Bridget Curran for ages ,have posted messages on all the irish sights but no luck so far and as you will know Boyle is a very common name both in Ireland and Scotland.Although Bridget and Peter came from Ireland they were married in Glasgow so on the marriage certificate it gave me both of their parents name, and as one of the children was born in Ireland, thats how i found the village she was born in hope all this makes sense, if i can help in any way please let me know ,though iam not very experienced , but you will get a lot of help from the folks on this forum

maceill

[Currie]

Hello Maceill,

In one of the photos on the ScotlandsPlaces site there looks to be an old graveyard. The photo is dated 1965 and appears to have been taken from the direction of the church. http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/searc ... &id=187957

According to the map there the school was near the corner of Abercromby Street and Gallowgate, near where Abercromby Drive is now. There’s still a large empty area at the back with the flats fronting the street. The church is still there http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=55 ... 1&t=h&z=18

Here’s an earlier post about St Mary’s burial ground viewtopic.php?f=54&t=7239&start=0

If there were in fact no surviving registers then it would be unlikely there would be records of remnants moved to Bishopbriggs. That’s unless there were records kept of legible gravestones but a infant orphan would be unlikely to have had one of those.

All the best,
Alan

[maceill]

Thanks for the info
so much to take in
maceill

[piperdanny123]

Hello again I told you recently that I'm pretty knew at this, but the more I read e-mails of peoples replys the more I
know the problems you're having. They keep refering to abercromby st and St M arys at Bishopbriggs, these two places have in my opinion no connection with each other one's in the Gallowgate, and the other on Bishopbriggs, quite a distance apart, I believe they were two different schools alltogether I'm not even sure if the one in Gallowgate was even an industrial school, I think it was for looking after peoplewho were ill or some type of other medical problems, also it's much to near the city centre, I feel this is why you're hitting so many brick walls. I believe the Education Athorities could be you're best bet, as they were responsible for putting people in there in the first place. I you were a bad buy in those days stealing stuff etc they would check with you're school to see if you had good attendance and were if you had a good record they would probably give you another chance hoping that it was just a one of thing probably keeping the wrong company. I will check for an address for St Andrews House in Edinburgh for you and will try and find out from then if St Marys was ever anything else other than an industrial school and if there was ever any connection with the other place. I hope this has been of some help to you and the best of luck let me know how you get on Thanking You piperdanny

[maceill]

Thankyou so much for the info, i do know that the remains of people who were buried next to St Marys industrial school in Abercromby street were removed to STmarys Bishopbriggs.Information on St Marys industrial school Abercromby street is scant to say the least.Why is there no census records for the school[1881]?
once again thankyou and good luck with your research
maceill