1841 Census - Where Born?

[SandySandilands]

Once again, going over what I have so far in hope that I've missed something! lol

My family are the first family listed on this page of the 1841 Census:

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... ensus1.jpg

This is how the place of birth for "Margrate" and the eldest child, Alexander are recorded:

"If born in Scotland, state whether in county or otherwise" - a "N" has been recorded
"Whether foreigner or whether born in England or Ireland" - is that a tick?

On the following page:

Several of the entries have been given a tick in the "If born in Scotland, state whether in county or otherwise" column
and what looks like an S, possibly an I in the "Whether foreigner or whether born in England or Ireland"

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... ensus2.jpg

This is the only lead I have to where Margaret was born - how should I decipher this entry correctly?

Thanks for your help.
Sandy

[StewL]

Hi Sandy
My interpretations of the image is the Margate was not the one ticked, it was the entry Alex below.
Someone else may be able to give further advice.

[Russell]

Hi Sandy
The 1841 census was the first detailed record and enumerators sometimes forgot to enter some of the required data, which looks like the case here. I think the ticks were added later when the enumerator was adding up how many were Scottish and how many were born outside the country. There should have been an 'E' or an 'I' for English or Irish but it has been missed out. In the other page it looks like a very ornate 'I' rather than an 'S'
It looks like, in common with almost everyone else, the 1841 entry is not going to help you much. Did Margrate survive to gain an entry in the 1851 record ? If not then it will be very hard to find further records unless you are one of the lucky ones. She may have been buried in Dean Cemetery which is a private concern and keeps detailed records. Perhaps someone has had direct experience of dealing with them can give you some advice

Russell
P.S. I have rellies in the Dean but w were able to go there and wander till we found them complete with headstones

[SandySandilands]

Thank you Stewie and Russell

Unfortunately, Margaret (nee Johnstone) did not make it onto the 1851 census, she died in 1848, aged 52 and is buried in St Cuthberts. (Andrew, her husband (my 4 x grt grandfather), went on to marry again and is buried in Dean Cemetery together with his 2nd wife).

Margaret and Andrew were married in 1820 in Sellkirk, both "of this parish". The cautioner for Margaret was Robert Orr, stocking weaver. Robert was married to a Janet Johnston, who was 43 when she died in 1837. I think Janet and Margaret were sisters.

Robert Orr and Janet Johnstone were married in 1811 in Selkirk, both "of this parish". The cautioners were both relatives of Robert -- so no help there either! LOL

PS I've had many happy hours wandering around Dean Cemetery and taking photies

[SarahND]

Hi Sandy,
I see an 'N' for mother Margrate and for Alexander, but a 'Y' for Margrate the daughter. Someone has gone by later and put a tick next to all of the 'N's, i.e. not born in the county. I would interpret it as Margrate the mother and Alexander being born outside of the county, but still in Scotland and daughter Margrate, and sons David and Andrew being born within the county where enumerated. Do you know where Alexander was born?

All the best,
Sarah

[SandySandilands]

Hi Sarah

No baptisms entries for any of the children -- strange thing with my lot -- marriage entries and burials yet no baptisms.

Here's a timeline of what I do have:

1820 - Andrew and Margaret married in Selkirk
1822 - birth of Alexander - no baptism (buried 1846 in St Cuthberts)
1824 - birth of David - no baptism
1825 - burial of the above David in St Cuthberts, Edinburgh
1826 - birth of 2nd David - who appears on the 1841 census (my 3 x grt grandfather)
1828 - birth of Andrew - no baptism
1829 - burial of above Andrew in St Cuthberts
1831 - birth of Margaret - who appears on the 1841 census (buried 1843 in St Cuthberts)
1833 - birth of Andrew - who appears on the 1841 census (buried 1849 in St Cuthberts)
1834 - birth of William - no baptism
1835 - burial of above William
1841 - census - (Margaret's husband Andrew is working away from home)

So, the family were in Selkirk in 1820 and the first evidence for them in Edinburgh is 1825.
They could have been someone else between Dec 1820 and April 1825.

My 4 x great grandfather gives his place of birth as c.1800 in Selkirkshire on the 1851 Census - again no baptism record.

Btw, 25 or so years ago I had the great fortune to see an old family bible in which births and deaths along with several other things had been scribbled. Over the years, I have been able to find records to support 90% of the information recorded in it. The bible recorded Andrew's birth as 1795, Village of the Water of Leith.

Sandy

[SarahND]

Hi Sandy,
So Alexander didn't live until 1851 either One is tempted to assume that both he and mother Margrate were born in Selkirk-- but of course it would be nice to have some proof! In the marriages are they always Church of Scotland?

Andrew doesn't list his parish of birth in 1851, just Selkirkshire... did he live until 1861 to give more information in that year? I assume not

This family is not making it easy for you!
Regards,
Sarah

[SandySandilands]

LOL You can say that again, Sarah. I've been "stuck standing here" for 30 years.

Andrew died in 1852.

Selkirk parish church was the place of his first marriage in 1820
In 1852 he was married to Mary Wallace, at St Cuthberts Edinburgh, by the Rev John MacGilchrist of the URC(?) Rose Street.

In 1823 Andrew was quoting for work (the building of stone dykes) on farms in Selkirk. I once found some research which suggested that the Water of Leith Village, although formerly famed for cornmills, baxters etc. had a influx of quarry workers around the 1820s due to building works in Edinburgh.

Sandy

[Currie]

Hello Sandy,

By 1852 Rev. John McGilchrist would have been United Presbyterian Church as he was when he died in 1858.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=dhI ... 22&f=false

All the best,
Alan

[SandySandilands]

Thanks Alan, that's really interesting.

I'm going to have a bit of a delph to see if I can find out anything more about the minister and Rose Street Church. I know very little about the demoninations of the Church in Scotland.

Sandy.