OCR madness .....

[DavidWW]

A properly trained human would

I would think that any human who had ever filled out a form would. The human eye can interpret things even in the midst of spurious lines, etc. that it is difficult to program a machine to extract from the background "noise"
Here's to humans!
Sarah

Severe warning...............

Without wishing in any way to sound cyncical, you're assuming that some puir soul somewhere in the Indian sub-continent, The Phillipines, Taiwan, mainland China, etc., has been given the training required to understand the construction, logic and layout of the enumeration page; along with the contextual background of the census.

Since, as we have been multiply been reassured by various Ancestry contacts, that OCR or similar software does not come into the picture

Were this particular example the only one of its type, then I could accept that it's just one of those things which happen even in the best planned projects; but, sorry, there's been too many instances of type of "overflow problem", to coin a phrase; including in that category the all-time classic place of birth "Deaf & Dumb".

And remember that we're only seeing the weird entries that members of TalkingScot come across.

I can imagine the programming required directing the software to find the first column from the right with text content; but I can also imagine minimal training leading to the puir soul referred to above being trained to look at the first column from the right with text content but with no understanding that there will be an occasional entry in "Deaf, Dumb, Blind" column...... Hmmmmm.............. when are we going to see an instance of place of birth "G&E"

And that's without even mentioning the many frequent "nonsenses" in the occupation column and unbelievable placenames, particularly counties in the place of birth column.

And I haven't even got round to talking about quality control...........

David the Unbelieving

[Jack]

Hi folks,
Ancestry have quite a few folk named DITTO in their Scottish censuses....
And even some with the surname of DO....
--
Jack

[SarahND]

Aw, Jack, you got my hopes up there for a second. I've been tearing my hair out trying to find Benjamin & Jessie McKenzie in the 1871, so I thought I might as well search for ditto and do But only one ditto in all of Scotland and 13 do??s, none of which were the right ones
Regards,
Sarah

[Jack]

Hi David,
You mentioned,
...... Hmmmmm.............. when are we going to see an instance of place of birth "G&E"
--
Here you are; someone born in G & E - it's in Caithness!
Amazing what we learn from Ancestry.
There are a few more in 1891...but they, at least, have a placename preceding G&E.
--
1891 census 168-2 Ed 16 p 25 (Old Machar)
Donald ROSS, 36, occup. Boots, b. G & E, Caithness Shire.
--
Jack

[LesleyB]

Hi Jack

1891 census 168-2 Ed 16 p 25 (Old Machar)
Donald ROSS, 36, occup. Boots, b. G & E, Caithness Shire.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry!

Unreal...

Best wishes
Lesley

[DavidWW]

Hi David,
You mentioned,
...... Hmmmmm.............. when are we going to see an instance of place of birth "G&E"
--
Here you are; someone born in G & E - it's in Caithness!
Amazing what we learn from Ancestry.
There are a few more in 1891...but they, at least, have a placename preceding G&E.
--
1891 census 168-2 Ed 16 p 25 (Old Machar)
Donald ROSS, 36, occup. Boots, b. G & E, Caithness Shire.
--
Jack

I'm neither laughing nor crying, just sad

Not surprisingly, given his occupation, Donald lives (and works) in a hotel, and it's the hotelkeeper who then becomes the Head of Household, and, for 2 of his staff on this page, has only provided the county of birth, not the parish; one of these being Donald.

The enumerator is an accomplice as it obviously wasn't explained to him [is there a tongue in cheek emoticon ] what Ancestry would be doing 115 years hence, and he quite often finishes the "Where Born" entry in the "Gaelic or G&E" column, and in one instance even spills over beyond that into the "Whether Deaf or Dumb etc." column ..........

Can someone who knows their way around the Ancestry site better than I do see what is given on the same page, i.e. 168-2 Ed 16 p 25 (Old Machar) for the place of birth of Christina DAVIDSON, 17 (maybe 19), Scholar.

Just noticed the entry in the "Rooms with One or More Windows" for the hotelkeeper above, - 86, - so it wasn't a wee lodging house !!, - 5 Bridge Street for any who knows this area of Aberdeen. From a look at the free header it appears to be the Palace Hotel.

David

[mal]

The entry in Ancestry is "Petty G & E, Invernesshire" and the age is 17.

Malcolm

[emanday]

Hi David, How's this?

1891 Scotland Census
about Christina Davidson
Name: Christina Davidson
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Petty G & E, Invernesshire
Registration Number: 168/2
Registration district: Old Machar
Civil parish: Aberdeen Old Machar
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 22 Bridge St
Occupation: Schoalr
ED: 16
Page: 25 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 184
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1891_53
Household Members: Name Age
George J Cassie 20
Jeannie Cruickshank 15
Christina Davidson 17
Thomas Jenkins 19
Edward Milne 43
Edward Milne 10
Fiddis Milne 11mo
Josephine Milne 8
Margaret Milne 37
Mary A Milne 9
Harry L L Morrison 29

[DavidWW]

Thanks guid folk.

Pure deid brilliant, so it is, this entry.

There's a entry completely within the location column of "Invernesshire, Petty", and then in the Gaelic column, completely within in it "G&E", absolutely and perfectly clear with not a single penstroke straying into a neighbouring column, which was why I choose it, but read by whoever/whatever as Petty G & E, Invernesshire , i.e. the parish of Petty G & E in the county of Invernesshire.



David

PS Can't resist asking the same question re Mary Fraser, 22 (?), Housemaid, on the next page, i.e. 1891 census 168-2 Ed 16 p 26 (Old Machar) ??

On a predictive basis it should be "Boleskine G&E, Invernessshire"
dww

[DavidWW]

Hi David, How's this?

1891 Scotland Census
about Christina Davidson
Name: Christina Davidson
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Petty G & E, Invernesshire
Registration Number: 168/2
Registration district: Old Machar
Civil parish: Aberdeen Old Machar
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: 22 Bridge St
Occupation: Schoalr
ED: 16
Page: 25 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 184
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1891_53
Household Members: Name Age
George J Cassie 20
Jeannie Cruickshank 15
Christina Davidson 17
Thomas Jenkins 19
Edward Milne 43
Edward Milne 10
Fiddis Milne 11mo
Josephine Milne 8
Margaret Milne 37
Mary A Milne 9
Harry L L Morrison 29

Then there's another problem here.

The only person in the same household as Christina, Schedule 184, is Jeannie CRUICKSHANK.

Schedule 183 contains George J CASSIE and Thomas JENKINS; Schedule 182 Harry L L MORRISON.

Schedules 182, 183 and 184 are all "Lodgers" at 22 Bridge Street, in the same house as the MILNE family in Schedule 181.

You might think that I'm nitpicking, but the problem is that Ancestry lists all other folk in the house alphabetically by surname, then forename, rather that by the quite separate Household schedules clearly shown on the two pages involved.

What intrigues me in this little saga is that every single name has been transcribed correctly.

David

PS There's yet another family at No. 22 but presumably they lived in a separate room or set of rooms within the same building, with a separate entry, i.e. front door.

A "lodger" was defined as someone who lived in the same room or set of rooms, i.e. the same front door, but looked after their own meals etc., whereas a boarder ate with the family of the Head of Household.

Both lodgers and boarders could also be related to the Head of Household, but wouldn't always be shown as such. It all depended on how closely the Head of the Household followed the instructions, and/or how the enumerator interpreted the information that he was given.
dww