Deciphering help please .....

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pinkshoes
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Location: Yorkshire

Deciphering help please .....

Post by pinkshoes » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:09 pm

Can some kind soul please have a look at this 1861 image which I've posted to the gallery (note the confidence with which I say this) :roll: :lol:

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1168

I won't muddy the waters with Ancestry's translation, though I have to say I can't do any better. SP doesn't have Andrew listed as anything like the Ancestry version, and wildcards have not done it for me. Stumped again.

Thank you

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

Gallery URL added - AndrewP

AndrewP
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Post by AndrewP » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:16 pm

Hi Pinkshoes,

My first guess is Andrew Scougal.

(a couple of minutes later)
1861 SCOUGAL ANDREW M 12 CRANSTON /MIDLOTHIAN 680/00 001/00 005

All the best,

AndrewP

DavidWW
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Post by DavidWW » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:18 pm

I'm not convinced that it's an "a" as all the other "a"s I can see are closed.

So maybe Scougiel??........

David

SarahND
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Post by SarahND » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:29 pm

I'm worried about all those pre-letter flourishes... either they are letters, so it is possibly Scougiel or Scongiel, or they are just flourishes and it is Sougel or Songel :?
Regards,
Sarah

JustJean
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Post by JustJean » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:39 pm

This is the wee fella in 1851....

1851 SCONGAL ANDREW M 2 BORTHWICK /MIDLOTHIAN 674/00 001/00 010

but the original writing still looks like it could be a U instead of the N....hmmm

Best wishes
Jean

pinkshoes
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Post by pinkshoes » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:00 pm

You're all fantastic - knew I could count on you! Thank you so much. Now I just need to figure out who his mammy wiz :lol:

Thanks again.

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

AndrewP
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Post by AndrewP » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:34 pm

Hi Pinkshoes,

This looks like a likely candidate in the online IGI.

ANDREW SCOUGAL - Birth: 25 JUN 1848 Borthwick, Midlothian
Father: ANDREW SCOUGAL
Mother: ISABELLA ORMISTON


All the best,

AndrewP

pinkshoes
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Post by pinkshoes » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:41 pm

Hi Andrew - thanks for that - I've just been looking at it a few minutes ago myself, but the lightbulb hasn't gone on yet. Wee Andrew Scougal/Scongal's granny was Mary Crookston m.s. Darling (on the page before Andrew) so try as I might I can't fit Isabella or Andrew into that family. I was wondering if Isabella died and Mary Crookston took him in and just called him her grandson. No doubt that's too simple :roll:

I'm trying to find a death for Mary Crookston (Darling) without success so far and hoped I might get some kind of clue via Andrew - as you can probably tell desperation is setting in, and the clutching at straws has started :!:

Thanks again.

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

Jack
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Scougal family

Post by Jack » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:15 am

Hi Pinkshoes,
Just to add to your confusion...
I know you'll have most, probably all, of this below by now.
It would seem that Andrew & Isabella's daur was also brought as a grandchild.
By an Andrew SCOUGAL & Margaret KILGOUR.
They do have a son Andrew.
I wonder if the OPR may have more to say on the births of Andrew & Margaret?
====
Parents: ANDREW SCOUGAL & ISABELLA ORMISTON
Two children...
ANDREW SCOUGAL - Birth: 25 JUN 1848, Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
MARGARET SCOUGAL - Birth: 31 JAN 1850, Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
====
1841 census 680 Ed 5 p 11 (Cranston)
Sauchan Side.
Robert CROOKSTON, 40, miner, b MLN
Mary CROOKSTON, 35, -----------b MLN
George CROOKSTON, 13, -------b MLN
Ann CROOKSTON, 9, -------------b MLN
William CROOKSTON, 5, --------b MLN
David CROOKSTON, 2, ---------b MLN

1851 census 674 Ed 1 p 10 (Borthwick)
Dewartown.
Mary DARLING, head, Marr, 44, outdoor labourer, b Borthwick, MLN
David CROOKSTONE, son, 11, scholar/pauper, b Cranston, MLN
Janet CROOKSTONE, dair, 9, scholar, b Cranston, MLN
Andrew SCOUGAL, gr-son, 2, ------b Borthwick, MLN

1861 census 680 Ed 1 p 4 (Cranston)
13 Chesterhill.
Mary CROOKSTON, head, 54, dress maker, b Borthwick, Edin.
David CROOKSTON, son, 22, coalminer, b Cranston, Edin.
Andrew SCOUGAL, gr-son, 12, labourer, b Borthwick, Edin.
====
ANDREW SCOUGAL
MARGARET KILGOUR
Marriage: 04 DEC 1825 Newbattle, Midlothian, Scotland
Marriage: 08 DEC 1825 Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
Some children...
ANDREW SCOUGAL - Christening: 04 DEC 1825 Newbattle, Midlothian
JOHN SCOUGAL ~ 1832
MARGARET SCOUGAL - Christening: 24 FEB 1828 Borthwick, Midlothian
ALEXANDER SCOUGAL - Birth: 06 JUN 1837 Borthwick, Midlothian

1841 census 689 Ed 4 p 1 (Inveresk)
Smeaton.
Andrew SCOUGALL, 35, Ag. Lab, b MLN
Margret SCOUGALL, 40, ------------b MLN
Andrew SCOUGALL, 15, -----------b MLN
John SCOUGALL, 9, ---------------b MLN
Alexander SCOUGALL, 3, ------b MLN

1851 census 689 Ed 4 p 1 (Inveresk)
Smeaton.
Andrew SCOUGAL, head, marr, 45, farm overseer, b Cockpen, MLN
Margaret SCOUGAL, wife, marr, 56, -----------------b Newbattle, MLN
Andrew SCOUGAL, son, u/m 25, farm servant, b Newbattle, MLN
Alexander SCOUGAL, son, 13, farm labourer, b Borthwick, MLN
Margaret SCOUGAL, daur, 1, ----------------b Borthwick, MLN.....
[but shd be gr-daur? See 1861 below. Ancestry has name as Swagat...]

1861 census 689 Ed 1 p 31 (Inveresk)
Smeaton Farm Cottages.
Andrew SCOUGALL, head, 55, farm steward, b Cockpen, Edin.
Andrew SCOUGALL, son, 35, ploughman, b Newbattle, Edin.
Margret SCOUGALL, gr-daur, 11, scholar, b Borthwick, Edin.
Helen KILGOUR, niece, 24, housekeeper, b Temple, Edin.
[guessing a bit on names - Ancestry have Sebugall & Hilgour]
====
Jack
ps, red herring time...possibly an innocent victim of my imagination.
But i'm wondering who this Isabella Ormiston is?
They may be two different persons, no way to tell at present.
--
1841 census 710 Ed 3 p 7 (Humbie)
Windy Mains......... [with a William Maurow & family]
Isabella ORMISTON, 15, servant, b SCT [sic]

1851 census 683 Ed 5 p 1 (Dalkeith)
High St. South........ [with a David Jarden & family]
Isabella ORMISTON, servant, u/m 27, servant, b Cranston, MLN
--

pinkshoes
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Post by pinkshoes » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:38 pm

Jack thank you so much for your efforts here. Andrew Scougal is new to me, so I haven't got anything on him other than the two census years when he's with his granny. I've no idea at this point who the Ormistons and Kilgours might be, so you've given me a good starting point.

As an aside, I noticed that David Crookston in 1861 is described as a scholar/pauper, and his mammy Mary is an outdoor labourer. I'm assuming at this stage that husband and father Robert Crookston has died between 1841 and 1851 leaving Mary to bring up the weans - would "outdoor labourer" mean anything in terms of poor relief? I have scant knowledge of the system, but bearing in mind David's description, would it mean Mary was receiving relief as oppose to being in the poorhouse, or does it just mean she was a "field worker" - (how terminology changes over the years) :lol: Or is there no way of deducing anything :wink:

Sorry about this - my request for deciphering help has turned into a bit of an inquisition :oops:

Best wishes
Pinkshoes

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