Thomas CHALMERS + Margaret BARRIE '61/'51 census? ....

[Linda Kemp]

Perhaps someone has info on this pair. Can't find a marriage record. Can't find a death record for Thomas. Perhaps they'd be on an 1861, 1851, or even 1841 census? They'd most likely be in Lanark or Ayr. Here's what I have:

Thomas CHALMERS, b.bef.1831, d.bef.1872 (likely bef.1868), wagon driver.

Margaret BARRIE, b.abt 1822, d.1901 Motherwell. (After 1874 she married Daniel THOMSON, b.abt.1825, d.1889 Old Monkland, ironworker/watchman.)

Children of Thomas CHALMERS + Margaret BARRIE include:
o Agnes CHALMERS b.abt.1846, d.aft.1901.
o Thomas Barrie CHALMERS b.abt.1851 Calderbank, d.1895 Hamilton.
o Margaret Stevenson CHALMERS (conjecture)
o John CHALMERS (conjecture)

Approx 1841 ages: Thomas 16-29?, Margaret 19.
Approx 1851 ages: Thomas 21-39?, Margaret 29, Agnes 5, Thomas Barrie <1.
Approx 1861 ages: Thomas 31-49?, Margaret 39, Agnes 15, Thomas Barrie 10.

Thanks for any info anyone might have. Maybe there's even a potential shirttail cousin lurking?

Linda

[Jack]

Hi Linda,

Margaret is as married in 1861 - but can't as yet see hubby Thomas in Lanarkshire, so don't really know if he is still living.
There is a Shortrig (one "g") about 1½ mls west of Slamannan.
--
1851 cens 625 (653) Ed 21 p 46 (Bothwell - Holytown)
Stirling Rd, Chapelhall.
Thomas CHALMERS, head, marr, 37, pauper on parochial aid, b New Monkland, LKS
Margt. CHALMERS, wife, 29, wife, b Shortrigg, STI
Agness CHALMERS, daur, 5, daur, b Chapelhall, LKS
Thos. CHALMERS, son, 7mos, son, b Chapelhall, LKS
&
1861 cens 652-3 Ed 8 p 39 (Old Monkland - Eastern District)
37 Old Square, Calderbank.
Mrs. Margt. BARRIE or CHALMERS, head, Marr, 37, ------- b Slamannan, STI
Thomas CHALMERS, son, 10, scholar, b Bothwell, LKS
Daniel THOMSON, boarder, u/m 37, labourer, b Old Abbey, RFW
Peter THOMSON, boarder, u/m 41, labourer, b Old Abbey, RFW
['or' was squeezed in after, and Chalmers above Barrie in Margt's entry]
--
1861 cens 652-3 Ed 8 p 14 (Old Monkland - Eastern District)
Commercial Inn, Calderbank.
Robert PETTIGREW, u/m 26, innkeeper & grocer, b Old Monkland, LKS
Peter MEIKLE, servant, 16, servant, b Bothwell, LKS
Agnes YOUNG, cousin, 26, servant, b New Monkland, LKS
Agnes CHALMERS, servant, 15, servant, b Bothwell, LKS
[looks like daur Agnes working nearby]
--
Jack
--
edited to correct where Shortrig was - it's west of Slamannan, not east. Best not to ask me for directions....
edited again - Thomas was a son, not a daur. I'm just having one of these days....
and again! realised i still had Thomas as a daur in the other part of the '51.

[Linda Kemp]

Jack,

Thank you SOOOO much!! Looks like you indeed found them and that father Thomas died before 1861, a little earlier than I expected.

It's interesting to note that father Thomas Chalmers' widow Margaret Barrie later married her lodger Daniel Thomson. Then years later, son Thomas Chalmers' widow (Grace Hodge) married HER lodger (Sam Hoey). Today we have Match.com. Looks like in the 1800s they took in boarders! Go granny!!

Thanks again, Linda


Jack, thanks for added info. Linda

[Jack]

Hi Linda,

Here's the Poor Law record you kindly agreed to be posted. Pity no mention when 1st hubby Thomas CHALMERS died.
But where was daur Margaret BARRIE in 1851 & 1861 censuses? - was she at Shortrigg with Gr-parents? If not, then where?
-------------------
Lanarkshire Poor Law Record (Dalziel Parish) Volume C01 / 37 / 65. No 1436.

Applied 9 APR 1897, 3.30pm.

Margt. BARRIE, CHALMERS, or THOMSON. 29 Oakfield Place.
Age - 75
Religion - Protestant
Occupation - Housewife
Born - Slamannan
Marital Status - Widow
Wholly disabled - old age
Partially destitute
Parents - Thomas BARRIE, a farmer & Agnes STEVENSON.
---
Applicant was born in Shortrigg Farm, Slamannan.
She is the widow of Daniel THOMSON, a watchman at Calder Iron Works,
who was born in Islay, and died in Calderbank 8 yrs ago.
---
Family -
Agnes CHALMERS (51) married to James WALKER, a mason, 5 of a family, one boy working,
and one married with whom she resides.

Margt. BARRIE (54) married to John FARRELL, a railway surfaceman, resides at Garngad Rd, Glasgow,
3 children, one son working, 2 daughters married.
---
Residences -
Present house 4 mos
Boness a few days
Uphall 2 wks
Oakfield Place, Motherwell 3 mos
Moving about short periods at different places with relations 4½ yrs
Brydens Land, Holytown 2 yrs
Calderbank many yrs
---
Result of application -
14 APR 1897 - Relief of 3/- weekly, & claim on Slamannan.
30 APR 1897 - Relief of 3/- weekly, & claim on Slamannan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------[end of record]
These look like the daurs Margaret & Agnes in 1881.

1881 Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 21 Bright St
Source: FHL Film 0203640 GRO Ref Volume 644-3 EnumDist 84 Page 14
John FARRELL M 40 M Ireland Rel: Head Occ: Plate Layer
Margaret FARRELL M 37 F Chappelhall, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife
Annie FARRELL 7 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Margaret FARRELL 4 F Coatbridge, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur
John FARRELL 2 M Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Son
Margaret JOYCE U 22 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Boarder Occ: Cotton Weaver
--
1881 Census Place: Old Monkland, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 4 Pettegrew Land Calderbank
Source: FHL Film 0203701 GRO Ref Volume 652-3 EnumDist 9 Page 46
James WALKER M 36 M Lanark, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Mason
Agnes WALKER M 34 F Bothwell, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife
Grace WALKER 4 F Motherwell, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur
Abraham WALKER 2 M Motherwell, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Son
--
Jack

[Jack]

Hi Linda,

Forgot to send you this - found it a while back. There was an unusually short Poor Law application for a Thomas CHALMERS in 1862, but alas it has next to nothing on it - not even his age.

IF this is your Thomas, then it would make sense as to why Margaret said she was as married in 1861 - maybe they'd split up?
It would also mean that Thomas died from 1862 onwards - and not before (but always the possibility that this is a different Thomas).
--
Glasgow (Barony) Poor Law Record. D-HEW 14/13/3. No 12964.
Applied - 28 JAN 1862
Thomas CHALMERS
6 Westmuir St. with Owen QUIN.
30 JAN 1862 - Not Found.
--
So it seems this Thomas wasn't at the address when the inspector called to interview him - therefore no personal details.

Jack

[DavidWW]

As it's not a term with which I was familiar, went Googling, and found.....

"Shirttail Cousin" is an ambiguous term. It can refer to distant blood relatives, but more commonly it means family members who have no blood relationship but are connected somehow through marriage."

Davie

[DavidWW]

Linda

For a minute there I thought that we had a bigamy but your date for the marriage of Daniel THOMSON to Margaret BARRIE previously known as CHALMERS is wrong, - it was 5th March 1880.

Look in Holytown in 1879 for Thomas's death, reported by his son Thomas Barrie CHALMERS.

That means he's somewhere there on the 1871 census .......... but proving the link if he is on his own could be problematic.......

Davie

[Awgie]

Hi Linda

I'm the great granddaughter of Agnes Chalmers born 1846 who married James Walker of Lanark on 31 December 1874 in Calderbank, Old Monkland. She was previously married to Archibald Wark on 11 November 1870 in Calderbank but he died & I'm not sure if they had any children. She died in Motherwell (Dalziel Parish) on 21 January 1927.

There is an entry in the Old Parish Registers for Bothwell Parish which included Chapelhall but don't know if this applies:-
Thomas Chamers (their spelling not mine)
Marion Barrie
Married 22 July 1843

Any details on Thomas Chalmers are very elusive but this is what I have for Margaret Barrie Chalmers Thomson.

Margaret Russell Barrie born 12 June 1822 to Thomas Barrie & Margaret Stevenson in Slamannan. They had 8 other children born 1809 to 1827.

Thomas Barrie of Slamannan ( born 1 May 1790) & Margaret Stevenson of Bo'ness, West Lothian were married 14 July 1809.

Thomas Barrie's parents were John Barrie & Agnes Young probably from Denny in Stirlingshire.

Hope this helps!

Agnes

[AndrewP]

Hi Agnes,

Welcome to TalkingScot.

I'm the great granddaughter of Agnes Chalmers born 1846 who married James Walker of Lanark on 31 December 1874 in Calderbank, Old Monkland. She was previously married to Archibald Wark on 11 November 1870 in Calderbank but he died & I'm not sure if they had any children. She died in Motherwell (Dalziel Parish) on 21 January 1927.

A parent search on the IGI shows only one child to Archibald Wark and Agnes Chalmers.

THOMAS CHALMERS WARK - Birth: 24 AUG 1871 Old Monkland, Lanarkshire

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[WilmaM]

I have in my hand a list of Monumental Inscriptions for Slamannan.

Number 182 is in full :
1829 / THOMAS BARRIE/ And/ MARGARET STEVENSON

The next stone has more Barrie's: John, William, Catherine Loch, Lillias Dates range from 1889 -1935

Theres another: Robert Barry/ Agnes Scott
and A John Barry & wife Mary Shanks.

If these mean anything I'll post the full details.

Or if I can check other ones on the list for Slamannan or Airth do say