Can't find birth record

Birth, Marriage, Death

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TheJeanGenie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by TheJeanGenie » Wed May 01, 2019 11:41 pm

Moray_Lass wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:35 pm
Another longshot - school records? I used them to confirm where my Granda lived when he went to school - maybe easy for me as I knew the school. If they are his sisters he'd probably have gone to the same primary as they did. Should give the parents name and date of birth.
That's an interesting idea. Do you know where I find them? Are they available online?

Moray_Lass
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by Moray_Lass » Thu May 02, 2019 2:53 pm

TheJeanGenie wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 11:41 pm
Moray_Lass wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:35 pm
Another longshot - school records? I used them to confirm where my Granda lived when he went to school - maybe easy for me as I knew the school. If they are his sisters he'd probably have gone to the same primary as they did. Should give the parents name and date of birth.
That's an interesting idea. Do you know where I find them? Are they available online?
Sadly not, Wilma would have a better idea than me, if not in the Mitchell Library - mine are in the local Heritage Center on Microfiche and in the Aberdeen Archives (from the Grampian Region Days). I don't know how things are organised around Dunbartonshire.
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

Falkyrn
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by Falkyrn » Thu May 02, 2019 6:13 pm

Although a little out of your date range - Have you looked at the Francis Manning born in Old Kilpatrick (Dunbartonshire) in 1908
~RJ Paton~

WilmaM
Posts: 1599
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by WilmaM » Thu May 02, 2019 6:34 pm

TheJeanGenie wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 11:41 pm
Moray_Lass wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:35 pm
Another longshot - school records? I used them to confirm where my Granda lived when he went to school - maybe easy for me as I knew the school. If they are his sisters he'd probably have gone to the same primary as they did. Should give the parents name and date of birth.
That's an interesting idea. Do you know where I find them? Are they available online?
You may be in luck:
https://www.west-dunbarton.gov.uk/libra ... llections/
Our collections include:
Official council records, including minute books which date back to the 16th century
School records
Records from local industries, businesses, societies, notable families and individuals
We also hold the Singer Archive which has been officially recognized as a collection of national significance by the Scottish Government.

Access
Material from the archives can be viewed at Clydebank and Dumbarton Heritage Centres. Local History Librarians are often available for people to drop-in, however it is always advisable to book an appointment.
Enquiries are welcomed and the archives can be contacted directly via our Local History Librarian..
Could be worth a try, as you know an address from the passage details.

WilmaM
Posts: 1599
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by WilmaM » Thu May 02, 2019 6:58 pm

I tried cross-referencing the 1916 births with deaths.

Managed to find the deaths in Scotland for all but 4:
George Francis McKenzie born 1916 St Giles [Edinburgh]
Francis George McLachlan born 1916 Balmaghie - that's Dumfriesshire
George Francis Smith born in Calton Glasgow
Francis George who was registered in Dunfermline.

Wonder if any of those surnames crop up in the extended family?
Of course he could have been indeed adopted from who-knows-where and the mystery will never be solved - but then you'd think his adoptive parents would have obtained a birth certificate hmm the plot thickens...

TheJeanGenie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by TheJeanGenie » Sun May 05, 2019 9:35 pm

WilmaM wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 11:31 pm
Dumbarton is very near Glasgow, so I wouldn't rule out a city birth place in that case.

The Aunt he travelled with, and the other aunts & uncles you mention, have you checked for births under their surnames and maiden names?
It seems a bit odd if he was left in Scotland and travelled with others and then didn't live with his parents esp. As he was so young. It would look as if the others were in fact his birth parents.

You didn't mention where he married your grandmother, in the UK or USA? And did he leave her with a child?

I think 2 army numbers meant that he'd changed regiments, but the US army may be different to the WWI British examples I'm thinking of.

He is a wee bit of a puzzle right enough.

Reading the latest post now, no mention of other children? That would maybe rule out the girls Moraylass found.
I have checked, not found anything yet, but will keep at it. I agree that it is strange that he ended up living with his King aunts and uncles, which would make me think that perhaps if he were illegitimate it would be on the King side.

That said, if my research is correct, John Manning had a brother who died as a child who was called Francis... Might also be something to look into.

I think I have to go through the Manning tree that I have so far to check that the research is all solid - the last time I looked at this it was a few years ago and I want to be 100% that it is all correct. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for all of your input, is much appreciated.

nelmit
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by nelmit » Thu May 09, 2019 4:55 pm

Hi Jody,

Very complicated right enough. I feel your pain trying to piece all the info together.

Not much luck with George Francis's birth but I did find a record of Annie King's death at the IGI :(

Name Anna M. Manning
Event Type Death
Event Date 02 May 1929
Event Place New York City, Queens, New York, United States
Gender Female
Age 40
Marital Status Married
Race White
Occupation Housewife
Birth Year (Estimated) 1889
Birthplace Scotland
Burial Date 06 May 1929
Cemetery Mt. St. Marys
Father's Name John King
Father's Birthplace Scotland
Mother's Name Mary Lesh
Mother's Birthplace Ireland

I can't be 100% positive but as far as I can tell John's family came from Doune in Perthshire. In 1931 there was a John Manning about the right age travelling from New York to Glasgow going to address is Doune.

Regards,
Annette

WilmaM
Posts: 1599
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by WilmaM » Thu May 09, 2019 5:37 pm

So he would be just 12/13 when his mother died, that's reason enough to go to his Aunt's, if his father was working in the hotel trade and unsocial hours.

TheJeanGenie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by TheJeanGenie » Wed May 15, 2019 2:17 pm

nelmit wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:55 pm
Hi Jody,

Very complicated right enough. I feel your pain trying to piece all the info together.

Not much luck with George Francis's birth but I did find a record of Annie King's death at the IGI :(

Name Anna M. Manning
Event Type Death
Event Date 02 May 1929
Event Place New York City, Queens, New York, United States
Gender Female
Age 40
Marital Status Married
Race White
Occupation Housewife
Birth Year (Estimated) 1889
Birthplace Scotland
Burial Date 06 May 1929
Cemetery Mt. St. Marys
Father's Name John King
Father's Birthplace Scotland
Mother's Name Mary Lesh
Mother's Birthplace Ireland

I can't be 100% positive but as far as I can tell John's family came from Doune in Perthshire. In 1931 there was a John Manning about the right age travelling from New York to Glasgow going to address is Doune.

Regards,
Annette
Thank You! Will write again as have to do the Kindergarten run now, but just wanted to say I found this on Find a Grave!

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/179 ... na-manning

Those are her sisters.
Best, Jody

TheJeanGenie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by TheJeanGenie » Thu May 16, 2019 12:52 pm

nelmit wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:55 pm
Hi Jody,

Very complicated right enough. I feel your pain trying to piece all the info together.

Not much luck with George Francis's birth but I did find a record of Annie King's death at the IGI :(

Name Anna M. Manning
Event Type Death
Event Date 02 May 1929
Event Place New York City, Queens, New York, United States
Gender Female
Age 40
Marital Status Married
Race White
Occupation Housewife
Birth Year (Estimated) 1889
Birthplace Scotland
Burial Date 06 May 1929
Cemetery Mt. St. Marys
Father's Name John King
Father's Birthplace Scotland
Mother's Name Mary Lesh
Mother's Birthplace Ireland

I can't be 100% positive but as far as I can tell John's family came from Doune in Perthshire. In 1931 there was a John Manning about the right age travelling from New York to Glasgow going to address is Doune.

Regards,
Annette
So, finally back.. Many thanks for this, it is so helpful. You say you find this on the IGI - is that on FamilySearch? Because when I look there it doesn't come up at all and I'd love to know what I cam doing wrong. I'd be really grateful if you could explain to me a bit about what the database is if you know.

And yes, John Manning was born in Doune and I'm pretty sure that is him travelling back to Glasgow in 1931 with intended future permanent residence in Scotland.... (I also found a trip he did back for 3 months in 1929)

Thanks for all your help, it's much appreciated!
Jody

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