"Poor" Ellison Laird and Margaret Crosgrove

Lorna Allison · Post by **Lorna Allison** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:33 pm

As a passing thought about the two mothers I checked up with the two birth certificates. Ellison signed her name on registering while Margaret made a mark only. So it's nowt to do with being illiterate.

I have never done any searching of Sheriff Court Actions David. Any advice?

Thanks for the posting up Marilyn.

Lorna

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:11 pm

Hi Lorna

Seeing this type of description used consistently in two quite separate parishes got me thinking that this may be a forerunner of Legal Aid.
Where the person seeking to right a wrong was supported by the parish in pursuit of her claim.
There may have been some legislative Act or paragraph within an Act which obliged Parish Councils to set aside moneys for such support. To enable their parishioners to see justice done.
It looks as though the Sherif Substitute was applying a legal term rather than being merely sympathetic.

Russell

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:13 pm

Lorna Allison wrote:.....snipped........

I have never done any searching of Sheriff Court Actions David. Any advice?

Thanks for the posting up Marilyn.

Lorna

The chances of survival of such Sheriff Court records are minimal, unfortunately.

Check with National Archives of Scotland, tho', just in case.

David

Lorna Allison · Post by **Lorna Allison** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:37 pm

I like the idea of the Parish supporting folk in order for them to get justice. Hope that might be the answer.

I shall look into the NAS side David.

Lorna

Post by **AnneM** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:12 pm

Hi

I'm pretty sure it means that the women had public assistance to pursue the action through the court, whatever the equivalent of legal aid would be then. Russell's about right though I don't think it came from the parish.

When I had more to do with courts the fact that someone was on legal aid was signified by the letters (AP) after their name, meaning assisted person. As I only do our own stuff now I don't know if they still do that in divorces etc. I think it was there to remind judges, clerks etc. to deal with the expenses of the action in the appropriate way.

Further thought, just googled the history of legal aid in Scotland and came up with SLAB's own website which states the following:

"Legal aid along the lines we now think of it "(their grammar not mine) was first introduced in Scotland in October 1950..........Before 1950, solicitors and advocates voluntarily gave free legal assistance to people admitted to the "Poor's Roll", which came into being in 1424.

"and gif there bee ony pure creature for fault of cunning, or expenses, that cannot nor may not follow his cause, the King for the love of GOD, sall ordain the judge to purwey and get a leill and a wise advocate, to follow sik pure creature's causes"
One may dispute whether or not there is such a thing as a loyal and wise advocate but anyway there yiz are and that is what poor means.

Cheers

Anne
<Anne - hope you don't mind. I changed the colour of your quote from cyan to indigo. I could not read it in cyan and it is too good to miss!

LesleyB>

Post by **AnneM** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:26 pm

Thanks Lesley

I'd tried to change it myself but don't seem to have managed very well!!

Anne

Lorna Allison · Post by **Lorna Allison** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:54 pm

Anne

I'm more than happy with that explanation and my FH pal over in Florida is delighted too.

What a great job you folks do - thanks again

Lorna

Post by **AnneM** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:50 am

Hi

Just moved this up to remind people what the 'poor' appelation before someone's name meant. It seems that the person in AnneH's documentation got the minister to testify that she should be admitted to the poor roll.

Anne