Birth Record - unknown father.....

Birth, Marriage, Death

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HeatherV
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:41 am

Birth Record - unknown father.....

Post by HeatherV » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:26 pm

Does anyone have any ideas as to how one could ever determine the name of the father of a child where on the birth registration the child is listed a illegitimate ? Birthdate is 1867 and the mother's name is there.

Thanks for any and all ideas.

Heatherv
Researching: Fulton, Lidster, Murdoch, MacLean, Graham, Shedden, Fairlie, Renton, Lynch, Gordon

mesklin
Posts: 325
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:25 pm

Missing father

Post by mesklin » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:35 pm

Heather

Worth trying to find a marriage cert for child later on. People have a way of sneaking in the father's name then. I know some of mine did.
Also worth seeing if child has middle name. Also popular device in my family. My family has quite a lot of 'interesting' births.

If all else fails, do a census of nearby streets. Is amazing how close reluctant fathers tended to be. A name might catch your eye.

You've got to be a little devious, but it often works!

Dave

nelmit
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Location: Scotland

Illegitimate Child

Post by nelmit » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:35 pm

Hello Heather,

Is the child's surname the same as the mother's? If so then I think it would be difficult (though not impossible) to find the father.

Would you like to post details.

Annette M

AndrewP
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Unknown father

Post by AndrewP » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:42 pm

Do you have later documents referring to the son - especially his marriage and death certificates. Sometimes a father (un-named at birth) will appear on these certificates. Similarly, have you seen the census reports relating to the son - is the family group, including father, listed there?

More importantly, on the birth certificate, is there an RCE stamp - usually to be found in the left margin. If so, there is a record in the "Register of Corrected Entries". An RCE for a birth often is in regard of the child's paternity. Unfortunately, the RCEs are not online yet. They can be viewed at New Register House, or ordered from there to be posted out (for a fee).

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

HeatherV
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:41 am

Post by HeatherV » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:19 pm

You are all so terrific !

Thank you !!!!

This is what I know now :

Robert FULTON b.22 Nov 1867
Colmonell, Ayr
Mother: Jane FULTON
Have is Birth Registry from SP site.

His mother Jane married William LYNCH.
They had 3 children :
Elizabeth LYNCH b. 17 Jan 1871
William LYNCH b. 02 Mar 1873
Hugh LYNCH b. 09 Aug 1881

Census records for 1881 showing William LYNCH and Jane FULTON as well as the 3 LYNCH children living at 5 Content Street, St. Quivox, Ayr

Young Robert FULTON, on the same census is not living with his mum. He is listed as living with his grandparents - Robert FULTON and Elizabeth McWHIRTER at in Colmonell, Ayr. Elizabeth was born back in 1811, I have considered the possibility that they might really be young Robert's parents but Elizabeth would have been 57 when he was born. Not very likely.

I'm thinking that if young Robert was actually the son of William LYNCH and Jane FULTON he would most likely be living with his mum and dad in St. Quivox.

On to 1893, I do have a Marriage record from the SP site, young Robert FULTON marries and on the record his parents are listed as Robert FULTON and Elizabeth McWHIRTER.

Then to 1935, I have young Robert's death record from the SP site. No father is listed there - but his mother's name is listed as Jane FULTON.


I could try a census but given that he was born in 1867 - I don't know which way to look. Earlier - or - later ?? Both ?

Actual birth certificates. I did not know about this. Do you know - if and when they corrected the entries. Where they written based on the information supplied to the person completing the Register of Birth ?

Once again - thanks for your help. I am fairly new at this and I think that this site is wonderful in that it gives some new ideas into how to try to solve these dilemmas !

Regards,

Heather
Researching: Fulton, Lidster, Murdoch, MacLean, Graham, Shedden, Fairlie, Renton, Lynch, Gordon

AndrewP
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Post by AndrewP » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:53 pm

HeatherV wrote:Actual birth certificates. I did not know about this. Do you know - if and when they corrected the entries. Where they written based on the information supplied to the person completing the Register of Birth ?
Hi Heather,

An RCE is a court document, which should be taken as additional information to the original certificate. Once the certificate was signed and issued, it could not be changed. If an issue, such as paternity was raised, this would be taken to the Sheriff Court. Upon acceptance by the Sheriff, the court issued the RCE which was then registered at the appropriate Registrar's office. At that time, the original certificate was stamped, usually in the left margin, "Register of Corrected Entries" (or some abbreviation of that), followed by a volume number and page number referring to the Register of Corrected Entries.

For paternity, there would have to be sufficient evidence to convince the sheriff that the man in question was the father. I guess if the father was in court offering his name as the father, then it was relatively easy. If the father was contesting that he was the father, then the mother would have to have some convincing evidence to say otherwise - long before the days of DNA testing.

Back to Robert Fulton's birth certificate. I take it you have downloaded a copy of the certificate. Is there any sign of a stamp mark in the left margin?

Regarding the 1881 census showing Robert as staying with his grandparents, he is shown as "grandson". I would be happy to take that as correct. It may be that William Lynch was not his father and did not want another man's child in his household; or that Jane did not tell her husband that the young child with her parents was her's - we can only guess at these things.

The 1871 census should help. As Jane was married to William by this time, you will see if Robert is with his mother or his grandparents.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson
PS. From the 1881 census, only two if the Lynch children were listed. Hugh wasn't born until 4 months after the census (3rd-4th April 1881).

HeatherV
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:41 am

Post by HeatherV » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:31 pm

Thank you Andrew.

Re - your PS. Right - I listed the wrong child.

This is the correct listing for 1881:

William LYNCH M 35 Maybole, Ayr
Jane LYNCH M 38 F Colmonell, Ayr
Elizabeth LYNCH U 10 F Maybole, Ayr
William LYNCH 8 M Maybole, Ayr

Birth Certificate - Registration. I have only the copy of the registration from the SP site. No stamp appears there. If there is no stamp do you think that the information that appears on the actual Birth Certificate might vary ?

1871 Census - do you have any idea where I might be able to find a copy
for this part of Ayrshire ?

Regards,

Heather
Researching: Fulton, Lidster, Murdoch, MacLean, Graham, Shedden, Fairlie, Renton, Lynch, Gordon

AndrewP
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Post by AndrewP » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:51 pm

HeatherV wrote:Birth Certificate - Registration. I have only the copy of the registration from the SP site. No stamp appears there. If there is no stamp do you think that the information that appears on the actual Birth Certificate might vary ?Heather
If there is no stamp there, then the informtion on the certificate is final. No more was given later. The online copy is a digitally scanned copy of the original birth certificate, so all the information shown on the birth cerificate should be there.
HeatherV wrote:1871 Census - do you have any idea where I might be able to find a copy for this part of Ayrshire ?
The 1871 census should be available on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk later this year. Of the censuses not yet online, 1871 is scheduled to be first (followed in turn by 1861, 1851, 1841 and 1881). If you are looking for it sooner, then you can order the microilm at your nearest LDS Family History Center. For a (small? fee/donation) they will order a copy of the microfilm in for your use over a perid of time. The signiicant difference will be that the online version will be indexed. At the LDS FHC, you will find no index - you have to wind the ilm through looking for your family names within each Enumeration District of the civil parish. It looks like initially you should be seeking the microfilms for Maybole (where daughter Elizabeth was born in 1871) and Colmonell (where the grandparents probably were).

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

Alcluith
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Post by Alcluith » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:53 pm

Hi Heather

there are another couple of avenues that you could try.
a) There is the Kirk Session Records. Was the unmarried Jane Fulton taken before the Kirk Session? This was common earlier but still worth an outside chance.

b) Where was Jane working and occupation around the time of her son's birth. Could there be a clue there?

Contact the Ayrshire FHS from our homepage link. It might even be worth joining to get some research done by them.
Burns, Quinn - Glasgow, N.Ireland
McLeod, Mackay, Nicholson, McNeil - Skye
James, McLeod, Sinclair, Smith - Renton
Davidson,Adie, Gibb - Aberdeen
Jolly Wishart - Angus
Usher - Newcastle
Mullen, Roe - Dublin
O'Donnell - Ireland, Alexandria

HeatherV
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:41 am

Post by HeatherV » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:14 pm

Thanks again for the tips. I don't know much about Kirk Session Records but it sounds like a interesting project to look into.

On another note - I was wondering if at that time when a baby was born - were that parents actually give a physical copy of the birth certificate ?

Given the possibility that some people could neither read or write - I am running into date of birth inconsistancies. Day and month is correct but the year is off.

Also - on another avenue I was wondering if anyone knew what type of documents a indvidual would have to present if he wished to immigrate ?
Would the Scottish officials be looking for anything at all or would it just be the shipping company that was going to carry the individual that would request documents ?

Regards,

Heatherv
Researching: Fulton, Lidster, Murdoch, MacLean, Graham, Shedden, Fairlie, Renton, Lynch, Gordon

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