Can't find birth record

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TheJeanGenie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Can't find birth record

Post by TheJeanGenie » Wed May 01, 2019 6:50 pm

Good evening!

I have been researching someone in my family tree for a number of years and have hit a wall so I thought I might see if anyone here could help me finally solve a little family mystery.

I have been trying to trace the story of my Grandmother’s husband, George Francis Manning, a US GI who she married in September 1944. He disappeared soon after their wedding and she never saw him again. (The family rumour mill said he was hauled away for going AWOL, but I have no idea how true this is.) He left behind his naturalization certificate and a photo, so I had that to start with as well as the information from their wedding certificate.

His is a tricky history. He naturalized in the US in 1944. From that I know he was born in Scotland on 28 June 1916 and that he emigrated to New York with an Aunt (Margaret King) on the SS Cameronia in 1922 under the name Frank George Manning. (An alternative birth date is 24 June 1916, but that is another complicated part of the story that I’ll ignore here for the time being). It seems his family was from the Renton/Dumbartonshire area. His Father was listed as John Manning and already living in NY. George’s passage was paid for by his parents, John Manning and Annie King, who appear to have travelled to NY ahead of him in 1921. Once in NY he did not, however, live with his parents, living instead with his Aunts and Uncles on the King side. I have been unable to trace what happened to his parents after 1922. So far I haven’t managed to find them on the US censuses.

I have been trying to find a birth certificate for George Francis Manning, but to no avail. I’ve not found anything on Scotlandspeople. I have a marriage record for Annie and John through another genealogist, which says they married in Alexandria on 29 June 1914, but I haven’t been able to find that on Scotlandspeople either.

There is a family rumour that has been passed on that says that George Francis Manning was actually adopted from a workhouse, possibly by John Manning. I view this with a degree of scepticism as it also claimed that John Manning was a hotelier from New York. I now know that John Manning was born in Scotland and there is no indication as of yet that he was in the hotel trade, which make me think that this may have been an embellishment on George Manning’s part...

I would be so happy if I could get a bit further with this, but I have run out of ideas on where or what to look for next. I very much hope someone here might be able to help me break through to the next stage with this.

Thank you!
Jody

Moray_Lass
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by Moray_Lass » Wed May 01, 2019 7:39 pm

Not much help but have you tried a search just using Francis George and leaving the surname blank? Just wondering about your workhouse rumour and if they would change his first names... There are 9 born in 1916. My Granda's birthday date changed - his WW2 enrolment papers have him a day younger than his birth certificate :lol: So that might not be such a mystery.

Also the AWOL rumour - any military records that might give you more personal details? Or different details. Could he have stayed in UK after disappearing? Not seeing a death in Scotland...

Might give you different things to try until someone else comes up with anything else
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

WilmaM
Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by WilmaM » Wed May 01, 2019 8:03 pm

There is a marriage on SP matching the parents:
MANNING JOHN KING ANN 1914 493/ 70 Bonhill
Bonhill is in Dunbartonshire, a bit north of Dumbarton itself, near Alexandria.

Doing as Moray Lass suggests only brings up 26 George Francis/ Francis George born between 1915/17 in Scotland, none in Dumbartonshire. Cross-reference that to deaths is just a muddle!

Look at that marriage and see if that helps any, could throw up other family surnames that he could be registered under - if he lived with his King kin, could he actually be their child born out of wedlock and absorbed into the family but the bio parents took over after a time?

Moray_Lass
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by Moray_Lass » Wed May 01, 2019 9:02 pm

There are 2 Manning births in Bonhill 1914 and 1918 - Sarah and Annie. Not sure the parents but could they be his sisters? And if they are where did they end up?
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

Moray_Lass
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by Moray_Lass » Wed May 01, 2019 9:35 pm

Another longshot - school records? I used them to confirm where my Granda lived when he went to school - maybe easy for me as I knew the school. If they are his sisters he'd probably have gone to the same primary as they did. Should give the parents name and date of birth.
Maggie

Parental -
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom, Geddes.
Banffshire, Rothiemay:- Lobban, Symon
Maternal -
'Finechty Flett's'
Banffshire:- Flett, Taylor, Wood, Lorimer, Falconer

WilmaM
Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by WilmaM » Wed May 01, 2019 9:38 pm

Do you have the parents' passage details or their naturalization records?

TheJeanGenie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by TheJeanGenie » Wed May 01, 2019 10:39 pm

Moray_Lass wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 7:39 pm
Not much help but have you tried a search just using Francis George and leaving the surname blank? Just wondering about your workhouse rumour and if they would change his first names... There are 9 born in 1916. My Granda's birthday date changed - his WW2 enrolment papers have him a day younger than his birth certificate :lol: So that might not be such a mystery.

Also the AWOL rumour - any military records that might give you more personal details? Or different details. Could he have stayed in UK after disappearing? Not seeing a death in Scotland...

Might give you different things to try until someone else comes up with anything else
I am pretty sure he died in New York in 1994. There is a US death record and a Social Security record (with parents listed a John Manning and Annie King), with a birth date on 24 June 1916.

The confusion regarding D.O.B. stems from the fact that there appeared to be another George F. Manning in New York, born on 24 June 1916, but who had a different army serial number to my George Francis Manning. However, I am pretty sure they are actually the same person as the address given on the army records and the census address for my G.F. Manning are the same and that would be too much of a coincidence.

The army records are confusing because of this issue of the two serial numbers - I'm going to see if I can post in a WWII forum to see if anyone there can help.

Tried the search without a surname but I'm assuming that if the workhouse rumours are true then it would have been one in the vicinity and I don't think any of the results were local to Dumbartonshire...

TheJeanGenie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by TheJeanGenie » Wed May 01, 2019 11:22 pm

WilmaM wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 9:38 pm
Do you have the parents' passage details or their naturalization records?
No naturalisation records for the parents but I do have their passage details.

Ann Manning (nee King)

Name Ann Manning
Arrival Date 30 Jun 1921
Birth Date abt 1887
Birth Location Scotland
Birth Location Other Dumbarton
Age34
Gender Female
Ethnicity/Nationality
English
Port of Departure Glasgow, Scotland
Port of Arrival New York
Ship Name Cameronia
Name/Address of relative - Sister, Helen King, 33, Thimble St, Renton
Passage paid by Husband, John Manning, 8 Maple Ave, Flushing, N.Y.

John Manning

Name John Manning
Arrival Date 8 Jan 1921
Birth Date abt 1889
Birth Location Scotland
Birth Location Other Doune
Age32
Gender Male
Ethnicity/Nationality Scottish
Port of Departure Glasgow, Scotland
Port of Arrival New York
Ship Name Columbia
Name/address of relative - Wife, Annie Manning, 29 Thimble St, Renton

WilmaM
Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by WilmaM » Wed May 01, 2019 11:31 pm

Dumbarton is very near Glasgow, so I wouldn't rule out a city birth place in that case.

The Aunt he travelled with, and the other aunts & uncles you mention, have you checked for births under their surnames and maiden names?
It seems a bit odd if he was left in Scotland and travelled with others and then didn't live with his parents esp. As he was so young. It would look as if the others were in fact his birth parents.

You didn't mention where he married your grandmother, in the UK or USA? And did he leave her with a child?

I think 2 army numbers meant that he'd changed regiments, but the US army may be different to the WWI British examples I'm thinking of.

He is a wee bit of a puzzle right enough.

Reading the latest post now, no mention of other children? That would maybe rule out the girls Moraylass found.

TheJeanGenie
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Can't find birth record

Post by TheJeanGenie » Wed May 01, 2019 11:40 pm

WilmaM wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 8:03 pm
There is a marriage on SP matching the parents:
MANNING JOHN KING ANN 1914 493/ 70 Bonhill
Bonhill is in Dunbartonshire, a bit north of Dumbarton itself, near Alexandria.

Doing as Moray Lass suggests only brings up 26 George Francis/ Francis George born between 1915/17 in Scotland, none in Dumbartonshire. Cross-reference that to deaths is just a muddle!

Look at that marriage and see if that helps any, could throw up other family surnames that he could be registered under - if he lived with his King kin, could he actually be their child born out of wedlock and absorbed into the family but the bio parents took over after a time?
Ahhh, now I find the marriage - doh!
I did wonder if that was the issue - born out of wedlock. I will take some time to unpick the King family relations...

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