Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Birth, Marriage, Death

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HeWhoDrinksGuinness
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:09 pm

Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by HeWhoDrinksGuinness » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:34 am

I am searching for a marriage record for a John Carlan (sometimes spelt Carlin or Carling) and an Helen or Ann McCarter (sometimes spelt McArter or McArthur). They were apparently married in Glasgow in April 1855 but after much searching I cannot find their marriage record anywhere. I've tried searching on ScotlandsPeople, Ancestry, FindMyPast and even IrishGenealogy (as John Carlan was Irish according to their Census records).

I know they were born in April 1855 in Glasgow due to that info appearing on the birth record of one of their children who was born in Scotland in 1863, although for some reason the exact day of their marriage isn't listed.

I'm unsure where to go from here so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Andy

Falkyrn
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by Falkyrn » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:28 pm

The gremlins appear to have struck your post - you state they were born in April 1855 and married in April 1855 - a bit young :(

Given the lack of any official record have you considered that their marriage may have taken one of the forms of so called "irregular marriages". The most common form of this was a simple declaration by the couple in front of witnesses that they were now man & wife.
~RJ Paton~

WilmaM
Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by WilmaM » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:54 pm

Falkyrn's explanation was the first one that sprang to my mind too.

Other reasons could be -
a. they never were married, and he chose the first date that occurred to him when asked
b. he couldn't remember and chose a date [be honest -how many of your fathers remembered their wedding anniversary :oops: ]
c. they were indeed married in 1855 but not in Scotland, or the marriage was never registered as it was still a new thing in 1855.

now the questions :?:
was the child in 1863 the first? sounds a bit late for an 1855 wedding
who were they ? and where was that birth registered?
You mention census records, what information do you have from those?
ie other children and ages
the couples' ages?
what marriage date does he give on the other births, if any?

I did have a quick search, but we are further hampered by the various spelling of their names.

HeWhoDrinksGuinness
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:09 pm

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by HeWhoDrinksGuinness » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:41 pm

Falkyrn wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:28 pm
The gremlins appear to have struck your post - you state they were born in April 1855 and married in April 1855 - a bit young :(

Given the lack of any official record have you considered that their marriage may have taken one of the forms of so called "irregular marriages". The most common form of this was a simple declaration by the couple in front of witnesses that they were now man & wife.
Apologies, I meant "married in April 1855".

I will look into Irregular Marriages. Thanks.

HeWhoDrinksGuinness
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:09 pm

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by HeWhoDrinksGuinness » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:50 pm

WilmaM wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:54 pm
Falkyrn's explanation was the first one that sprang to my mind too.

Other reasons could be -
a. they never were married, and he chose the first date that occurred to him when asked
b. he couldn't remember and chose a date [be honest -how many of your fathers remembered their wedding anniversary :oops: ]
c. they were indeed married in 1855 but not in Scotland, or the marriage was never registered as it was still a new thing in 1855.

now the questions :?:
was the child in 1863 the first? sounds a bit late for an 1855 wedding
who were they ? and where was that birth registered?
You mention census records, what information do you have from those?
ie other children and ages
the couples' ages?
what marriage date does he give on the other births, if any?

I did have a quick search, but we are further hampered by the various spelling of their names.
They had 6 children that I know of, the eldest, Bridget, being born in 1859. The child born in 1863, John Carlin, was the only child born in Scotland as far as I know (the rest being born in England) and so John's is the only Birth Record with the parents marriage date visible. The youngest child, William, was born in 1870.

The father John Carlin was born circa 1823 in Lifford, Donegal, Ireland according to the census records. Helen/Ann McCarter was born circa 1825 in Chapelhall, Lanarkshire, Scotland again according to census records.

Unfortunately by the 1911 census Helen/Ann was a widowed Pauper living as an inmate in a workhouse and so the details of her marriage and living/deceased children were not recorded which doesn't help things.

WilmaM
Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by WilmaM » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:05 pm

How inconsiderate of them not to have more children in Scotland! ;)
The 1911 census was my next step too :(

There are no records kept of 'irregular marriages' so I fear it may remain a mystery.

jgmills
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Dumfries and Galloway

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by jgmills » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:04 pm

There is a possibility that the record exists but the index has been mis-transcribed. You could contact Scotlandspeople, point them to the birth record give them the name, date and GRO ref number, that has the marriage details ,and see if they can find a marriage in the records that is incorrectly indexed.

I had issue recently when trying to find the birth of a son - who was informant on death of parents, I was at one of the Scotlandspeople centres, going through one year at a time, eventually found him but his surname was mistyped that even using wildcards didn't find it. Also on the same page was a record for birth - the forename was hcarles - clearly meant to be Charles. So there are plenty of errors in the index.

John

nelmit
Posts: 3981
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by nelmit » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:35 pm

It might be worth contacting The Mitchell Library in Glasgow to see if there is a record for a poorhouse application made by a Helen McArthur Carlin who was destitute in 1884.

Name: Helen Mc Arthur Carlin
Marital status: Married
Admission Age: 59
Record Type: Applications for Relief
Birth Date: abt 1825
Birth Place: Chapelhall
Admission Date: 22 Sep 1884
Admission Place: Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire, Scotland

I don't get there much myself these days but if I do in the near future I will have a look.

Regards,
Annette

WilmaM
Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:46 am
Location: Falkirk area

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by WilmaM » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:43 pm

Brilliant Annette!
I never remember about those records, they can have a lot of detail in them.

Falkyrn
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Seemingly Missing Marriage Record

Post by Falkyrn » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:06 pm

The record is actually at North Lanarkshire Archives

22nd September 1884 7.10 pm

Helen McArthur or Carlin aged 59, born Chapelhall, Married, No Home, Partial Destitution.

Son William Carlin aged 14 born Middlesborough, England along with her husband John Carlin, Puddler, born Ireland, left her 7 weeks ago.
Residence on Hamp (? couldn't make out this word) 3 weeks
prior England 30 years

Sent to Poorhouse.
~RJ Paton~

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