How many John Duncan's can a girl deal with?.....

[Jack]

Hi Carol,
Yes, the DUNCAN children's dates would be births as they are in the Statutory Records after 1855, and will be on ScotlandsPeople.
IF these below are Agnes McCONNELL's parents, then they too were Irish...! was your Agnes' father a blacksmith?
And if it is them, then this looks like her brother Charles.
Sharps Lane (now gone) was to the east of Grace Street (also gone) - they were only abt 300yds apart.
Both ran north from Stobcross Street.
--
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 12 Sharps Lane
Source: FHL Film 0203665 GRO Ref Volume 644-10 EnumDist 22 Page 6
John MC CONNELL M 58 M Ireland Rel: Head Occ: Blacksmith
Mary MC CONNELL M 68 F Ireland Rel: Wife
-----
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 12 Sharps Lane
Source: FHL Film 0203665 GRO Ref Volume 644-10 EnumDist 22 Page 7
Charles MC CONNELL M 32 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Iron Ship Rivetter
Catherine MC CONNELL M 30 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Wife Occ: Formerly Cotton Winder
Agnes MC CONNELL U 5 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur
Catherine MC CONNELL U 1 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur
Anne WILLIAMSON U 18 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Boarder Occ: Domestic Servant
--
Jack
ps, i think Mary CARSON was previously married to a Mr "McVey". Will get details why.

[Carol Duncan]

Hi Jack,

You're a wonder! I hope you have access to resources that isn't costing you anything!

Yes, that's them! You're amazing. 12 Sharps Lane is the address on Agnes's marriage certificate and her father is listed as a blacksmith.

I've been trying to figure out where the McVey/McVie name comes into the line.

Jack, if it has cost you anything to assist me, please let me know so I can reimburse you.

Cheers,

Carol

(It's quiet now, my boys have gone to bed!)

[CatrionaL]

Carol

Delighted that you've been able to move ahead (should that be move back?) with your research.

May it continue to be succesful!

Catriona

[joette]

Carol so glad that you have been able to move so far in your search.
As to what happened to the children please let us know if you find out.It does break your heart when you read what happened in these ancestors lives.
As they were very young & so numerous is it possible there may be Poor Relief involved & if so any records surviving? Glasgow's Archives are held in the Mitchell Library & are usually very illuminating in their content-I keep hoping for one of mine to appear but so far not.
That is a serious op for your wee chap to undergo & I am glad he is doing so well.I have seen a few cases when I used to Nurse at the Sick Kids in Glasgow. We would get cases form all over Scotland & the North of England.So good health to wee James.

[Carol Duncan]

The "poor relief" records you refer to, do you mean in Sydney's Mitchell Library?

I will have a ferret about.

There's only maybe 5 or 6 surgeons in Australia doing James's arterial switch op, and we were lucky to get the man who is considered the best. James has no ongoing problems or concerns (at this stage ... touch wood!) other than a little murmur caused by scar tissue. And even that's a bit of fun because every GP we see wants to have a listen when they hear his story.

Thanks again, I've been stuck with my Duncans for years ... it is so very exciting to have moved on a little.

I also try to work on my husband's Russian family ... which is next to impossible as only his mother, Grandmother and GGmother were thought to have survived WW2. Until recently, they thought everyone else had died, including his grandfather who 'disappeared' after being arrested in 1942 (he was an accountant!) before my husband's mother was born. I got my husband's aunt to get onto the Red Cross Tracing Service and they've since found that his grandfather survived the war, survived Stalin and was alive as late as the mid 1950's. So we hope that he somehow managed to die old, fat and happily surrounded by new family.



Carol D

[Carol Duncan]

I will have a look through their website and see what I can find.

Thank Heaven's for GOOGLE! I work in radio in Australia, and I'd be just lost without Google!

[Jack]

Hi Carol,
The census details are now added to the previous post - but you'll notice that John DUNCAN is as born Paisley in 1851....
Unfortunately John has died pre 1871 so we don't know what it would've been then.
What are the details of his parents from his 1866 DC?

Below is John McCONNELL with wife Mary CARSON. You can now see where the "McVIE" name came from.
Her DC may say she was married more than once - depends what details the informant gave.
Very usefully the enumerator in 1861 said more than the usual Ireland as the birthplace, but
Glillaway is the nearest i can make it out to be; meant to be Galway?
(it did start with "G" and end "...way" and had a lot of "L"s in the middle)
--
1851 cens 644-1 (570) Ed 5 pp 20-21 (City - St James)
17 Great Dowhill.
John McCONNELL, head, marr, 32, blacksmith, b Ireland
Mary McCONNELL, wife, ,marr, 36, ------------- b Ireland
Mary McVEY, step-daur, 16, cotton spinner, b Ireland
William McVEY, step-son, 11, errand boy, b Glasgow, LKS
Charles McCONNELL, son, 1, -------------b Glasgow, LKS
Agnes McCONNELL, daur, 1mo, -------- b Glasgow, LKS
&
1861 cens 644-8 Ed 28 p 13 (Barony - Anderston)
12 Sharps Lane.
John McCONNELL, head, marr, 39, blacksmith, b ?Glillaway?, Ireland
Mary McCONNELL, wife, marr, 47, --------------- b Antrim, Ireland
Wllm. McVEE, step-son, u/m 21, printer compositor, b Glasgow
Chas. McCONNELL, son, 12, scholar, b Glasgow
Agnes McCONNELL, daur, 10, scholar, b Glasgow
John McCONNELL, son, 8, scholar, b Glasgow
--
Jack
ps, there are at least 8 [possibly 9] Poor Relief applications that look like "yours".
D-HEW 10/3/27. p 98. Agnes (Erskine) Duncan [38], b Paisley. Applied 1863.
D-HEW 14/18. p 17373. Agnes (Erskine) Duncan, [??] b Paisley. Applied 1863.
D-HEW 10/3/34. p 70. John Duncan [16] b Paisley. Applied 1866
D-HEW 10/3/34. p 71. James Duncan [15] b Glasgow. Applied 1866.
D-HEW 10/3/34. p 72. Agnes Duncan [14] b Glasgow. Applied 1866.
D-HEW 10/3/34. p 73. Edward Duncan [9] b Glasgow. Applied 1866.
D-HEW 10/3/34. p 74 William Duncan [2] b Glasgow. Applied 1866.
D-HEW 10/3/34. p 75 Matthew Duncan [19] b Paisley. Applied 1866.
D-HEW 15/4/11. p 3400. John McConnell [66] b Galway, Ireland. Applied 1891.
But it might be a couple of weeks till i'm able to look at them - sorry to keep you in suspense!
--

[Carol Duncan]

Thank you so much, Jack! I am amazed by the things you're finding. Are you a professional researcher or keen amateur?

They certainly do seem to be my lot. I'll have to do a bit of reading now on 'poor relief' and what it was/how it worked, etc.

There are no parent details on John Duncan #1's DC from 1866.

And you have solved my "McVey" puzzle!

Thanks for your generosity, there's so much more information here, even some clues as to where to start looking in Ireland! G*****lllll***way sounds good to me!

I hope I can repay you in some way!

Best wishes,

Carol

[Jack]

Hi Carol,
Managed to write down John's record, but stuck for time on the others (but they are yours).
Usefully you now know he was born in the town of Galway, and not just somewhere in the County of Galway.
--
Glasgow Poor Relief Application.
D-HEW. 15/4/11. page 3400. N°791. 30 JUL 1891.
John McCONNELL, 96 Richard Street (2 up, right).
Born Galway, County Galway.
Age 66, widower, occup - stair railer. Religion - Prot.
Married 50yrs ago in Gallowgate.
Wholly disabled - debility.
--
Parents - Charles McCONNELL, blacksmith & Mary MARSHALL. both decd.
Wife - Mary CARSON, born in Ireland. Died 8yrs ago in 12 Sharps Lane.
--
Children -
Charles 43, b Gt. Dovehill St. married + 2 chn, a rivetter. ill & off work 17 wks, with whom he resides.
Agnes 40, b Gt. Dovehill St. married to John DUNCAN in Sydney - no word for 2yrs.
John 38, b Gt. Dovehill St. single, a machineman (printers) drunken unkwown where, often in City Poorhouse.
--
1st application. Settlement - Residence, Barony.
Present; Barony - 6yrs.
Prior 12 Sharps Lane; Barony - 30yrs.
--
Applies for Out-Door Relief. I would recommend a donation.
6 Aug 1891 - donation 20/-
2 Jan 1892 - John McCONNELL, Watson St Home, wholly unfit from bronchitis & debility. Family same.
States his family are unable to assist and he wants into P. House.
4 Jan 1892 - Entered Po. Ho.
27 May 1892 - Left Po. Ho.
20 Jul 1892 - John McCONNELL, 96 Richard St. with son Charles, applies for Out Door Relief.
Disabled by rheumatism & debility. Family same.
25 Jul 1892 - Entered Po. Ho & died 15 Aug 1892.
----------------------------------------------------------------------end

Jack
ps, i'm very much the amateur!

[Carol Duncan]

Thanks Jack,

You know, the more I read, the happier I am that I live in 2006 (even if global warming is going to be the end of us all! ) ... there are just such tragic stories ... and sadly the must have been so very common to so many families.

The family sounds like a real mess, and I'm guessing that if they hadn't heard from the daughter Agnes (my ancestor) for two years after she went to Sydney with her husband and family, I'm not sure I'm surprised she didn't stay in touch.

I have one very old tintype photograph of her. She must have been made of tough stuff ... John Duncan came to Australia to work and get settled when the youngest baby was tiny, so she was left on her own in Glasgow for about two years before she was able to join him out here. Then she spent three months on a ship with three small children bringing them here ... I just can't imagine it.

Thanks again!

Carol.