The Christian Watt Papers

History and Culture, A place to post a book title.

Moderator: Global Moderators

sheilajim
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: san clemente california

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by sheilajim » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:03 am

Hi David & Wilma,

David - Here is my reading in English of Heid or Hert:
"Allan, I am right thankful to the bull (boy cow) for putting an end to your place."
"What place, my dear?"
"The place between your head and your heart."
"And the heart won."
"Yes, the heart won." said Mary, looking up with soft deep (walls of een??? maybe tears?) :?: ( Could be tears, it would work.)
Alan put his arms around her and gave her a long fond kiss.

I am glad that you told me that heid or hert meant head or heart. But how did I do? I don't understand the 'walls of een'.

Wilma- I am certain that the Scot's language is a mixture of English, Gaelic and no doubt Viking and probably French words. :D What I still don't understand is why some parts of it are called Doric. A language that came into Greece in the 12th century BC. What on Earth had Greece have to do with Scotland? :? It is not exactly next door, is it.
I hope that you have a good time on your trip.
Sheila

Moray_Lass
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by Moray_Lass » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:43 am

Hi Sheila

I must admit I had no idea why my mither tongue is call Doric but this might shed some light
http://www.scotslanguage.com/books/view/72/2203

And as to Broad Scots, my understanding was just a very thick heavy accent - like it says under Learn About Doric here
http://www.thedoricfestival.com/history.html
You can't get much broader Doric than in The Broch :lol:. Baw Scots is something different again :D

Like Wilma we got slapped down for speaking Scots in school, I even got told off for falling into speaking Doric on the phone at work 12 years ago - and I was talking to someone in Peterhead and couldn't help myself! So I am glad the schools are taking it on now.
Maggie

Interested in
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Lobban, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom and Geddes.
Banffshire, Grange/Rothiemay:- Symon, Lobban
And 'Finechty Flett's'

sheilajim
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: san clemente california

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by sheilajim » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:37 pm

Hi Moray Lass,

"Eureka!" As the Ancient Greek Archimdes said, I have found it! \:D/ Thank you for sending me to that site. So the term Doric is a modern invention. ( By Modern, I mean anything later than the 16th Century.) I was really scratching my head wondering how the term Doric got into Scotland.

After reading the explanation, I wonder if maybe the People of Scotland should drop the term Doric and call it instead Scots or Gaelic. Does anyone have an opinion as to that? In the end I don't suppose it makes any difference anyway, isn't the whole purpose of language 8) to understand and be understood?
Sheila

david macdiarmid
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 8:10 pm
Location: Fife,Scotland

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by david macdiarmid » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:09 am

:D Hi Ladies,i really appreciate all your input into this,because i think we are all learning something,i know i am.Firstly i will translate the text for Sheila,i will give her 9/10 as she was just about spot on =D>As they turned,she looked up into his face with sweet eyes and said: "Allan,I am thankful to the bull for putting an end to your fight" "what fight my dear?""the fight between your head and your heart,"" "And the heart won", "Yes the heart won," said Mary,looking up with soft deep walls of eyes.Allan put his arms round her,and gave her a long fond kiss. Who hasn't had a fecht between the heid and the hert.? :roll:I am now confused :? did two of these ladies say that they were actvely dis-couraged from speaking there own tounge in the late 20th century?What was that all about? :wink: David
Banks,Bennet-Clark,Bird,Cholat,Clark,Clay,Dupre,Dupuis,Fraser,Grant,Gunn,Hooper
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!

Currie
Posts: 3697
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by Currie » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:13 am

I reckon it’s probably meant to be “looking up with soft deep wells of eyes” as by Tolstoy “his eyes like deep wells of light”.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=mne ... es&f=false

Or this bit from 1861 ‘those eyes which were like deep wells of water, growing darker and bluer the farther you looked down in them.” http://books.google.com.au/books?id=HIz ... 22&f=false

All the best,
Alan

Moray_Lass
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:18 pm
Location: Moray

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by Moray_Lass » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:19 am

Hi Sheila

Before reading that I would have put the Doric name down to coincidence myself :)

Doric is a dialect of Scots, but it is localised to one large area - I have a harder time ready Burns because he uses words I wouldn't. So calling it Scots isn't wrong, but it is definitely not Gaelic - the closet I come to speaking Gaelic are in place names that have very old Gaelic roots, like Auchenhalrig, which I understand mean 'place to chase the deer' (and you do).

If you want to hear Doric at it's best try any clips of Scotland the What you can find on the internet, or their current replacement Desperate Fishwives
http://www.flyingpigproductions.co.uk/index.php
I particularly like this audio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XED4rL9vj8

And I hear Trawlermen made by the BBC is big in the US - sort of like a Scottish Deadliest Catch. That one comes with subtitles, even in Britain! :lol:

Happy listening!

Sorry David I missed your last line :( Yes it was definite discouraged to speak Scots in school in the 60/70. And in that job I was in it was considered unprofessional to not speak properly, which I did 99.9% of the time, but I kept slipping when I spoke to our sites in the NE because they spoke it to me. In the 2011 census I put down speaking Scots first and English second, and I spoke Scots at home. :D
Maggie

Interested in
Moray, Bellie/Boharm:- Symon, Thomson, Lobban, Davidson, Gordon, Laing, Dick, Thom and Geddes.
Banffshire, Grange/Rothiemay:- Symon, Lobban
And 'Finechty Flett's'

sheilajim
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: san clemente california

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by sheilajim » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:27 pm

Hi All,

David, you gave me higher marks than I would have given myself. I would have given myself 5/10. :oops: The sentences make more sense with your translations.

Alan-I still don't get the term 'walls of eyes' or even 'wells of eyes'. :roll: I suppose that this term was dropped early in the 20th century.

Moray Lass- That audio from 'Desperate Fishwives' was so funny. It certainly gave me a laugh to start my day. :D
Sheila

Currie
Posts: 3697
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by Currie » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:20 am

Hello Sheila,

It’s probably to do with the dilation of the pupils in low light conditions and for reasons connected with physical attraction etc. The pupils of the eyes appear to be very large and dark and deep like the water in a well that you could dive into and swim down forever. Or maybe it’s just people who have black eyes of the non-violent variety.

It appears to have been used a lot in romantic literature over the years.

(Trawlermen rocks, I intended to get the DVD set and forgot.)

That’s my guess,
Alan

david macdiarmid
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 8:10 pm
Location: Fife,Scotland

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by david macdiarmid » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:31 pm

Hi Guy's,I have enjoyed the input from everybody on this topic :D To think that we have had questions and answers from three Continents,it makes the Planet seem quite small.I'm really glad that Wilma's Son is encouraged or indeed taught to speak Scots =D> This is not a conversation we should be having in the 21st century, but unless we try and protect this wonderful language Scots and the Gaelic may die off.As i said before a lot of the musical and magical sounding words have maistly gone [rant] .Wilma quoted one of them Birl or Birlin' ,how could an English word replace that? what about "Smeddum" or "tapsalteerie" or "stramash" or "trauchle" or "hirdum-dirdum" or "forpet o' tatties" or "corrieneuchin" and i love this one "speug" for the house Sparrow.There are thousands of these wonderful words.Strangely Moray Lass ,Wilma and myself, three out of millions, were not just discouraged from using our ain tongue but beaten with the belt or tawse if we slipped from english to Scots and the Moray Lass was told off at work 12 years ago for speakin' the Doric.How on Earth has this come about? Does it go back to 1746 and the aftermath of Culloden Moor,where the Highland Language,Dress and Culture were systematically removed from these poor folk? [soapbox] Or is it something 19th or 20th century? It didn't seem to affect Christian in her long life as she seems to have the perfect grasp of both languages.Anyway,just a thought,Slainte Mhor,David
Banks,Bennet-Clark,Bird,Cholat,Clark,Clay,Dupre,Dupuis,Fraser,Grant,Gunn,Hooper
Kelly,Leburn,Livingston,MacDonald,Paris,Reymond,Russell,Sommerville,Sutherland & Watson.All Scottish searches,apart from the four obvious French names.Merci Beaucoup !!!

aussiesusan
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:38 pm

Re: The Christian Watt Papers

Post by aussiesusan » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:31 am

Hello all
my interest in genealogy is only just being fired up, and my search for information about this book lead me to this forum
I have yet to read it and your comments make me want to find a copy
my interest comes from the fact that Christian is my GGGrandmother
and my Mother always spoke of her battle and attitudes and how they shaped her thinking, so in a way they have shaped mine

Susan

Post Reply