Peter Elder of Cupar Fife .....

Parish Records and other sources

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Kathleen Page
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:13 am
Location: Bellingham, Washington, USA

Post by Kathleen Page » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:52 pm

Hi Lesley,
LesleyB wrote:From what you mentioned in a PM about the Aunt Euphemia, this looks like her here:
  • Dwelling: 16 Newtown
    Census Place: Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Source: FHL Film 0203519 GRO Ref Volume 420 EnumDist 6 Page 4

    William WILLIAMSON M 34 M Monimail, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Head
    Occ: Van Driver
    Sophia WILLIAMSON M 39 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Wife
    Occ: Van Drivers Wife
    Isabella W. WILLIAMSON 7 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Dau
    Occ: Scholar
    George WILLIAMSON 6 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Son
    Occ: Scholar
    Peter B. WILLIAMSON 1 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Son
    Euphemia ELDER U 58 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Sister In Law
    Occ: Factory Worker (Linen)
    James FOWLES U 24 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Neph
    Occ: Mason (Unemp)
So that looks like Sophia Elder married Mr. Williamson.
IGI says:
SOPHIA ELDER
Spouse: WILLIAM WILLIAMSON
Marriage: 13 DEC 1872 Cupar, Fife, Scotland
...but maybe you know this already.
Should be in Cupar tomorrow, so will see if I can find the houses you mentioned - just hope the weather holds...

Best wishes
Lesley
I believe you are correct and this in Aunt Euphemia. Sophia is her sister and although Euphemia's age is correct, it looks like Sophia may have shaved a few years off her age. I believe that this is the same or very close to the same address where Alexander and Elizabeth lived with their son Peter in the 1841 census. Thanks so much for the info.

Kathleen
Fife: Elder, Watson, White
West Calder: Elder, Fisher, Campbell, Vincent
Glasgow: Bell, Goodwin, Howat, Gerrand, Brown
Dumfries: Copland, Lorimer, Bell, Graham
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LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:04 pm

Hi Kathleen
Sophia is her sister and although Euphemia's age is correct, it looks like Sophia may have shaved a few years off her age.
Not surprised about that really - tends to happen especially if the husband is younger than the wife, as in Sophia's case - he's 34 and she says she is 39.

By the way, I note there are Elders in the 1881 in Cupar who were bakers. I wonder if there is any connection with your family? Elders the bakers and an Elders tearoom was still in Cupar when I was a child in the same place as it was in the 1881!

Best wishes
Lesley
Last edited by LesleyB on Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
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Kathleen Page
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:13 am
Location: Bellingham, Washington, USA

Post by Kathleen Page » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:06 pm

Hi Lesley,

I also believe that you have found additional family members!! Alexander had a brother James born in 1835, a sister Helen born in 1832 and another brother David born 1823. It would make sense that they were all living in the same area. In what year do these inidividuals appear? Thanks so much for your excellent detective skills.

Kathleen

LesleyB wrote:Its "Long Shot" time! :lol: Could this be Alexander's brother James b. abt 1835. He has has son Peter...
  • Dwelling: Rodger Street
    Census Place: Anstruther Easter, Fife, Scotland
    Source: FHL Film 0203516 GRO Ref Volume 402 EnumDist 2 Page 8
    James ELDER M 44 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Head
    Occ: House Painter
    Margaret ELDER M 44 F Kemback, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Wife
    Agnes ELDER U 18 F Crail, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
    Occ: Machinist
    Isabella ELDER U 15 F Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
    Occ: Pupil Teacher
    Margaret ELDER U 13 F Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
    Occ: Dressmaker
    Peter ELDER 9 M Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Son
    Occ: Scholar
    James ELDER 6 M Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Son
    Occ: Scholar
    Christina ELDER 4 F Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
    Occ: Scholar
and given the address I'd be surprised if this lady isn't connected somehow...
  • Dwelling: 7 Newtown
    Census Place: Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Source: FHL Film 0203519 GRO Ref Volume 420 EnumDist 6 Page 2
    Helen ELDER U 30 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Head
    Occ: Washerwoman
    Thomas DUNCAN W 60 M Strathmiglo, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Boarder
    Occ: Blacksmith
    Jessie IRELAND U 19 F Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
    Rel: Boarder
    Occ: Factory Worker (Winder)
And this one just along the road, near the Williamsons at no.16:
  • Dwelling: 17 Newtown
    Census Place: Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Source: FHL Film 0203519 GRO Ref Volume 420 EnumDist 6 Page 4
    David ELDER M 57 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Head
    Occ: Mason
    Ann ELDER M 62 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Wife
    Occ: Masons Wife
    Anna HAMILTON 8 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Grd Dau
    Occ: Scholar
Best wishes
Lesley
Fife: Elder, Watson, White
West Calder: Elder, Fisher, Campbell, Vincent
Glasgow: Bell, Goodwin, Howat, Gerrand, Brown
Dumfries: Copland, Lorimer, Bell, Graham
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LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:07 pm

Hi Kathleen
Sorry should have said - all from 1881 census. Still amazed by the thought of Elders tearoom maybe being your lot!

And you now have an Anstruther link - so I wonder if you may be able to link in with Liz's Elder family after all?

Best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
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LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:17 pm

Helen ELDER U 30 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Washerwoman
...is only 30 here - a bit too young, b. abt. 1850, if her age is down correctly. But given the address, which is one you know your family to have lived at, 7 Newtown, I feel she must fit in somewhere.
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
Top
Kathleen Page
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:13 am
Location: Bellingham, Washington, USA

Helen Elder

Post by Kathleen Page » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:29 am

LesleyB wrote:
Helen ELDER U 30 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: Washerwoman
...is only 30 here - a bit too young, b. abt. 1850, if her age is down correctly. But given the address, which is one you know your family to have lived at, 7 Newtown, I feel she must fit in somewhere.
I'm wondering if this Helen is the daughter of David (brother of Alexander) that was born about 1851. Do you know the names of the Elders that own the tearoom? I don't know if they are relatives but they certainly could be. I would also like to check with Liz to see if there is a connection. Thanks again.

Kathleen Elder Page
Fife: Elder, Watson, White
West Calder: Elder, Fisher, Campbell, Vincent
Glasgow: Bell, Goodwin, Howat, Gerrand, Brown
Dumfries: Copland, Lorimer, Bell, Graham
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LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:34 am

Hi Kathleen
Here's the tearoom lot in 1881:
  • Dwelling: 25 St Catherine Street
    Census Place: Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Source: FHL Film 0203519 GRO Ref Volume 420 EnumDist 1 Page 1

    Margaret ELDER W 62 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Head
    Occ: Baker & Confectioner
    Agnes ELDER U 32 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
    Robert ELDER U 30 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Son
    Occ: Baker
    Margaret ELDER U 28 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Daur
    David ELDER U 21 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Son
    Occ: Confectioner
    Christine REID U 25 F St Andrews, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Serv
    Occ: General Servant
    Alexander URQUHART 15 M Kettle, Fife, Scotland
    Rel: Serv
    Occ: Baker Apprentice
Elders Bakers and tearoom was still in St Catherine's street until, I think, the late 1960s.
Best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
Top
LesleyB
Posts: 8184
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:20 pm

Hi Kathleen
Had a look at the OPR today. There is no further info than is given in the Fife Death Index i.e.
  • OPR 420/5 Cupar deaths
    1847,Sept 2nd, Watson, Isobel, wife of Peter Elder, weaver, age 50, consumption.
    1850, 11 December, Elder, Peter, age 55, Asthma.
I also managed to find some further info on the Elder family who owned the Café. I took several photos of the houses you were hoping to see so if you can PM me with an email address I will send the pictures and info on to you, as I don't have enough galllery space here to upload them.

Best wishes
Lesley
Last edited by LesleyB on Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
Top
Liz Turner
Global Moderator
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:28 pm
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

Post by Liz Turner » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:02 pm

Hi Kathleen (and Lesley)

You've been doing some great work here. I've got a fair bit of information about Elders but should stress that as far as I know the only one directly to be "mine" is George Elder b 2/7/1811 in East Anstruther (d 14/7/1868) who married on 19/5/1833 (in Pittenweem) Margaret Cornfoot b 26/5/1813 Pittenweem (d 24/2/1905 Canada).

The connection to me is through Cornfoot. However, as I said I've picked up lots of bits here and there connected to the name Elder. I am sending you pm tonight with the names of the people and the email addresses I had for them at the time. Hopefully you might find a connection.

Elder is not a particularly common name in that part of the country as Lesley already mentioned. However there is a batch of them in Pittenweem and with connections to Anstruther, Carnbee and Kilrenny.

PM is on the way - I promise! :roll: :lol:

Good luck.

Liz
Fife: Nicolson, Cornfoot, Walker, Gibson, Balsillie, Galt, Elder
NE Scot: Nicolson, Lindsay, Haliburton, Ross
Edin & Central: Nicolson, Blaikie, Stevenson, Ross, Hotchkiss, Suttie, Christie, Clelland, Gray, Purvis, Lang, Dickson
Ross & Cromarty: Ross
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Kathleen Page
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:13 am
Location: Bellingham, Washington, USA

Post by Kathleen Page » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:47 pm

LesleyB wrote:Hi Kathleen
Had a look at the OPR today. There is no further info than is given in the Fife Death Index i.e.
  • OPR 420/5 Cupar deaths
    1847,Sept 2nd, Watson, Isobel, wife of Peter Elder, weaver, age 50, consumption.
    1850, 11 December, Elder, Peter, age 55, Asthma.
Hi Lesley,

I know for certain that the death of Isobel is the correct one and I suspect that the entry for Peter is also correct but I was wondering if there is any way that the two entries can be linked together? Thanks.

Kathleen Elder Page
Fife: Elder, Watson, White
West Calder: Elder, Fisher, Campbell, Vincent
Glasgow: Bell, Goodwin, Howat, Gerrand, Brown
Dumfries: Copland, Lorimer, Bell, Graham
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