Rebuked by the Church?

Parish Records and other sources

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Pandabean
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:34 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire - Originally Falkirk

Post by Pandabean » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:05 pm

Frances
Thanks for that website, seems quite interesting.

Regarding finding the Birth of William Greenlees, there is no Birth in Midlothian or nearby areas for him in the 1770s. The OPR that I have added to my gallery was from Scotland's People. I ordered it a while back, before I signed up to the local FHS. Silly I know. My cousin has been searching for him for years but has had no luck in finding William. As for Elizabeth, I may have found her parents but I am kind of sceptical at looking at the OPRs and constantly worrying "Is this the right person?"
paddyscar wrote: Then I would think the OPR marriage on ScotlandsPeople website would give you at least where they were married and you can then see which of the Williams and Elizabeths listed in ScotlandsPeople OPR births and baptisms would be your most likely.


The other strange thing I noticed about this couple is they only had one kid. If they married in 1804 surely they wouldnt wait 10 years to have their first kid?


Sorry I forgot to mention that the records above this one are also dated 1814. I didnt want to post the whole certificate just in case it was a problem with GROS.
Andy
[size=75]
[b]McDonald[/b]
[b]Greenlees & Fairnie[/b] (Musselburgh area)
[b]Johnston, Whitson, Whitecross, Runciman [/b] (Haddingtonshire)
[b]Rutherford [/b](Dumbartonshire, Airth & Larbert)
[b]Ross, Stevenson & Robb[/b](Falkirk)[/size]
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LesleyB
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
Location: Scotland

Post by LesleyB » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:23 pm

Hi PAndabean
Sorry I forgot to mention that the records above this one are also dated 1814. I didnt want to post the whole certificate just in case it was a problem with GROS.
Ha! That pretty much confirms what I suspected and outlined, as above.

best wishes
Lesley
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DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:32 am

It could also have been the case that they moved in 1814, and the kirk elders in Inveresk were less than enthused to discover that not only did they have an unbaptized wain, but also were unmarried, something that might easily have gone unnoticed in a city parish.

Orrrr.... they'd been in Inveresk all the time, and, as Lesley suggested, decided to have the wain born 25Oct1814 baptized ................

On reflection, given the date of the birth and the date of the rebuke by the kirk, both the birth and the marriage probably took place in Inveresk. There may well be a lot more detail on the situation in the minutes of the kirk session meeting(s) involved, the OPR entry that started off this thread being just a summary for the purposes of the "registration" of the marriage in the OPR.

In among all this, just remember that the 1804 irregular marriage was perfecly legal in terms of Scots Law, whatever the kirk might think :shock:

David
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Pandabean
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Posts: 874
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:34 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire - Originally Falkirk

Post by Pandabean » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:29 am

Hmm. So you are saying that they might have moved from Edinburgh out to Musselburgh/Inveresk? How would I go about getting Kirk Session records and would they reval much more?


The other question always in my mind about their son is his name. He was born John Thorburn Greenlees and this later became William for some reason. Would it be that his mother changed the name since his father died in 1823? Also at William's marriage in the 1830's one of the witnesses was John Thorburn.

I did some checking and came up with these interesting dates:

JOHN THORBURN
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 20 OCT 1799 Inveresk With Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

Parents:
Father: JOHN THORBURN Family
Mother: JEAN PEAT


John Thorburn married a Jean Pate
Spouse: JEAN PATE Family
Marriage: 14 JAN 1788 Inveresk With Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Andy
[size=75]
[b]McDonald[/b]
[b]Greenlees & Fairnie[/b] (Musselburgh area)
[b]Johnston, Whitson, Whitecross, Runciman [/b] (Haddingtonshire)
[b]Rutherford [/b](Dumbartonshire, Airth & Larbert)
[b]Ross, Stevenson & Robb[/b](Falkirk)[/size]
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DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:45 pm

Pandabean wrote:Hmm. So you are saying that they might have moved from Edinburgh out to Musselburgh/Inveresk?
Only a possibility, and the less likely one thinking about it.
Pandabean wrote:How would I go about getting Kirk Session records and would they reval much more?
Digitised images can currently be viewed at NAS in Edinburgh. They will come on line at some future point, but not until 2008 or maybe even later.

David
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Davie
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: Glasgow

Post by Davie » Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:37 pm

Hi all,
Is it possible that the couple were married in the Secession Church.
In Musselburgh, the Rev. Alexander Black was the Minister of the Secession Church from 1788 until his death in 1846.
By that time it was the UP Church.
In 1814, the couple could have decided to rejoin the Established Kirk.
Jist a thought.
Davie
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DavidWW
Posts: 5057
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:47 pm

Post by DavidWW » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:11 pm

Davie wrote:Hi all,
Is it possible that the couple were married in the Secession Church.
In Musselburgh, the Rev. Alexander Black was the Minister of the Secession Church from 1788 until his death in 1846.
By that time it was the UP Church.
In 1814, the couple could have decided to rejoin the Established Kirk.
Jist a thought.
Davie
Unlikely, as the OPR would most likely have mentioned something like "..........married by Mr Black.......

A check on the kirk session minutes might provide a definitive answer.

David
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