Am I onto something? Would like opinion

[StewL]

Sarah and BJ

Och you academics are aw the same

[SarahND]

I just realized that my mother and her sisters and brother for no reason that I can think of started spelling their own names "MacDonald" instead of McDonald, which was the way their father and grandfather spelled it.

Aha!! Now you see how it happens

Och you academics are aw the same

As for you, Stewie... Look out! I have been known to paint people's tongues black and then ask them to speak "normally" while I snap photos Think you're safe down under, eh?
Sarah

[emanday]

Hi All

Thank you all. I think that I have just knocked down another brick wall. I will put them in my tree as probables.

I just realized that my mother and her sisters and brother for no reason that I can think of started spelling their own names "MacDonald" instead of McDonald, which was the way their father and grandfather spelled it.

Sheila

That Mac/McDonald thing caused me no end of problems. My grandmother was almost fanatical about it being Mac and got really miffed when letters came addressed with Mc. Needless to say I could never find her entries on SP till I learned on here about the M*c thing in searches. Turns out that even her grandfather signed with Mc. It was her Dad who added the "a"

[DavidWW]

For reasons that aren't fully clear to me, such a reaction from this generation is common, but it then very often turns out that the previous generations weren't that bothered about the spelling. and, as in this example used the other variant.

My Maclennan line were the same, my great-grandfather having used both Mac and Mc during his lifetime, never mind single and double "n", and lower and upper case for the "l", but in the next generation the spelling solidified on Maclennan, and an aunt of mine refused to believe the tree that I traced on the basis that the spelling was much more often Mclennan than not.

It's possible that the 1911 National Insurance Act led to standardisation of surnames in a way that had never happened before. This measure gave the British working classes the first national contributory system of insurance against illness and unemployment, - there had been occupationally, mainly locally based "friendly societies" and some limited trades union schemes before then, - and required the building of a national database on which there could have been confusion unless people used a consistent spelling (for UK readers, - can you immediately tell me your NI number? , i.e. you know your name & date of birth better than your NI number). This was the first time that there had ever been such a continuing database. (It's still there, headquartered in Long Benton just outside Newcastle-upon-Tyne, but whether early records may ever be made available is not known, never mind that many early records are known to have been "weeded" from the files. Surviving records are more likely to relate to living persons, so that that could preclude any release of early records.)

This neat summary from http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Linsurance1911.htm .

All wage-earners between sixteen and seventy had to join the health scheme. Each worker paid 4d. a week and the employer added 3d. and the state 2d. In return for these payments, free medical attention, including medicine was given. Those workers who contributed were also guaranteed 7s. a week for fifteen weeks in any one year, when they were unemployed. These benefits were paid at Labour Exchanges which provided unemployed workers with information on any vacancies which existed in the area.

As regards Mc vs Mac it's possible that around this time that the belief arose that the different spellings indicated a different geographic origin, or a different religious background. Neither of these, except possibly for short periods on the geographic side, are correct; but it can well be imagined, particularly in the West of Scotland in the early decades of the 20th century that the religious aspect led to strong opinions.

By the geographic comment I mean that it can be shown, over limited periods of time, - a few decades, - that the one spelling was the more commonly used than the other in a certain part of the country, but never to the extent that one spelling was exclusively used; and never over a period of centuries.

David

PS

The NI Act led to the incident known as the "Turra Coo"....

This from http://www.turriffanddistrict.com/index.php?topicid=4 .....

Now to the world famous Turra' Coo! In 1911, Lloyd George, the Liberal Prime Minister, brought in National Insurance legislation. Robert Paterson of Lendrum Farm refused to comply. He maintained he looked after his employees. To pay the imposed fine, a white cow was impounded, to be sold in the market place in Turriff. The cow was brought to the Square, be-ribbonned and painted with the words "LENDRUM TO LEEKS" a reference to Lloyd George's Welsh roots. A riot ensued! Sherriff's officers were pelted with eggs, soot, neeps, cabbages, divots and kail stumps by a mob of a thousand. The Coo escaped, only to be taken to the Mart in Aberdeen, to be bought by local farmers and brought back to her home at Lendrum, where she died 6 years later. A memorial to her, and the events which led to the formation of the Scottish Farm Servants' Union can be seen at Lendrum Farm.

See also http://www.springthyme.co.uk/wwwboard/messages/153.html for the bothy ballad The Far Famed Fite Turra Coo...

[Chris Paton]

Hi Sarah

I thought that they would be the same. I am wondering why the next generation would spell them a different way.


Regards

Sheila

They didn't! The spelling variation will most likely be down to how the writer of the OPR thought they were spelt, not how the couple spelt their names themselves. If one of the couple had changed their name, you could possibly argue that it may be down to that person; but for both to have their names so different definitely points to the minister's attempts to spell the names himself!

Names are a lot more standard today, but even so, my great uncle changed his name from Smyth to Smythe when he joined the army, as he thought it sounded more posh!

Chris

[wini]

I think you are probably on to something and Chris it isn't only on the OPR
My middle name is spelled McPhee, on my BC My grandmother was Annie McPhie on Dc in 1947.
the rest of the family in umpteen documents are variously Mc/mac Phie, Phee, Fie and Fee. Even on a MC the Groom could be MacPhie and his brother, the witness is Mcfie
Drives me mad.

wini

[Chris Paton]

Absolutely, you'll also see it on census entries and statutory records. My own name in the past has been variously recorded as Paton, Patton, Patten, Pautone, Pautonne and Patonne. The irony is that I and the rest of my family all pronounce it as 'Payton', but that obviously was not the case in the past...!

Chris

[DavidWW]

Chris

How do you pronounce WASON, - Wayson - as currently in the West of Scotland, or Wawson as in Antrim?

In my line it's a question of applying the glottal stop to WATSON and this transmutes over two generations to WASON via some obvious but also quite a few less obvious variants.

David

[Chris Paton]

Hi David,

I've not come across the name Wason before, but as I am the past master of the glottal stop, it probably would be Wawson that I would say!

My biggest headache in Northern Ireland is researching the Watton family. They seem to have arrived in Coleraine shortly after 1831 (they aren't in the 1831 census which still exists for the area) and probably from Ballymoney before that in Antrim. I'm probably a generation or two from connecting them either to England or Scotland, but can't make that final link back due to the fact Ireland still lives in the genealogical dark ages.

I won't tell you how I pronounce Watton when I get exasperated...! lol

Chris

[sheilajim]

Hi All

When you look at all the different spellings of names that have come up, you almost wonder if it was a plot by our ancestors to deliberately befuddle their descendants.

On the other hand it could be that our ancestors were illiterate and couldn't even spell their own names and the ministers did the best that they could. I only know for certain that all my Great Grandfathers were literate, at least to the extent that they could sign their own names, as evident in their signing of the birth registers. Earlier than that I will never know if my GGGrandfathers were literate or not, as the ministers did the writing for them. It would seem then that my GGrandfathers must have learned how to spell their names at school, so we can blame all this mess on their teachers, except for my mother and her generation who decided for some reason or another to change the spelling of their name.

Whatever the reason it makes it more difficult to find our old rellies, and really makes the use of wild cards when searching very important.

Sheila

PS I didn't know that I had some Highland ancestors. My mother never mentioned it, probably thought that it wasn't important.