Kirk Session Records - Beith

[SarahND]

Hi Lesley,
I suppose this is the census:

1851
23 Great Hamilton Street, Paisley South, Renfrewshire
James Hadden, 51, Head, born Paisley, Renfrewshire, Hand Loom Weaver
Alex Hadden, 11, Son, born Paisley, Renfrewshire, Weaver's Asst


Catherine is 18, Hat Trimmer, a niece in the household of Jane Hadden in Barony.
Margaret is 13, Servant in the household of Thomas Murph in Glasgow St George.

Cheers,
Sarah

[LesleyB]

Thanks Sarah. So, hang on... (I'm beginning to feel that none of this adds up.....)

The shipping list gave James Hadden as 44, Flora as 38, Alexander 10 and Archibald 8. As three of the party were officially Haddens I can only assume to call Archibald anything else would have confused people.

Flora's age was a little "out" given she was allegedly 42 in the 1851, and is 38 here in 1852, but that was not worrying me too much, but this is a much larger gap - James is 51 in 1851 but 44 by the following year??? Is he fibbing because he is much older than his wife? Or is it a mistranscription? Or was it one of those things one did if going to Austrailia to make oneself appear a better prospect? They have both become younger.

Also not sitting happily in my head are all the supposed surname changes for "oor Erchie", and the child Elizabeth as a Mitchell with her mother in 1841 followed by Archibald also as a Mitchell in '51 though Flora whom we believe to be his mother, and who we think may have been married to Mr Harper is stating she is married, so why would these kids turn up as Mitchells not Harpers....
...and the lack of info in the OPRs is beginning to make me think they are not CoS, and if so, it is doubtful if they would turn up in Kirk Session records either.

And what happened to that couple who married in 1830 - Harper/Mitchell? There are no Flora Harpers in the 1841 on SP. And how do we know that the Flora who married Mr Harper is the same Flora in 1841 (what happened to the child Elizabeth who may or may not be a daughter?) and '51 (in a household with a child Archibald) and is the same one who married James Hadden - Archibald would appear to be about the correct age, but that is about all we have to go on and that the 1851 Flora would appear to be the daughter of Hugh Mitchell.

Ma heids birlin'
(and thats no on account o' overdae'in it wi' the New Year spirit )

[SarahND]

Thanks Sarah. So, hang on... (I'm beginning to feel that none of this adds up.....)

That makes two of us

Flora's age was a little "out" given she was allegedly 42 in the 1851, and is 38 here in 1852, but that was not worrying me too much, but this is a much larger gap - James is 51 in 1851 but 44 by the following year??? Is he fibbing because he is much older than his wife? Or is it a mistranscription? Or was it one of those things one did if going to Austrailia to make oneself appear a better prospect? They have both become younger.

I thought of the "make oneself a better prospect" reason also. But why is Alex 11 in 1851 and then 10 on the ship's list? Surely a 12 year old child would not be a problem?

And what happened to that couple who married in 1830 - Harper/Mitchell?

Indeed...

Ma heids birlin'

Here, have a drink! Any minute this will all become clear...

Sarah

[SarahND]

Well, couldn't stand it any longer and downloaded the certificate... no info. Hope this is not an indication of my genealogy searching in 2010!

"December 29th 1830. William Harper & Flora Mitchell both in Low Church Parish. After proclamation were married."

So THAT didn't help any But thought I'd better confess in case someone else was on the verge of the same folly

Back to the drawing board...

Sarah

[LesleyB]

Sarah - thanks for that, but what a disappointment. This lot seem determined to hide.

Wonder how long she had been in Low Church Parish? I guess you only need to be there a short while (a month or so?) to have it listed as such - does that put the rest of her family there by then? Last child we have note of for her parents ( on the assumption they are the same Flora, mindyou... We're maybe off course here) from IGI was:
GRACE MITCHELL
Female Birth: 09 JAN 1828
Christening: 17 FEB 1828 Beith, Ayr, Scotland

Pity there is no indication of the occupation of the elusive Mr Harper either....ho hum....

I really feel like we have a number of jigsaw pieces here but with no real evidence to link them together into a solid sequential narrative. Urk.

Here, have a drink! Any minute this will all become clear...

I'm trying - I'm having a drink, but it's no helpin' so far, other than I feel a little more relaxed about the fact that there are a lot of bits not adding up!!

[SarahND]

Hi again,
Am I the only one who didn't realize this topic had already been discussed in August 2008?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12171

My excuse is that it would have been building season and I was in the woods

Sarah

[LesleyB]

Hi Sarah
I've no excuse that I can think of....

[SarahND]

Hi Sarah
I've no excuse that I can think of....

I'll say you were helping me build

[SarahND]

Here are some random William Harper sightings to throw into the pot:

1) From A2A:
Rishton. Notice of intention to apply for order against William Harper of Heaton Norris, book keeper, for maintenance of his bastard child by Frances Spencer, singlewoman  QSP/3025/15  1835 16 Jun
These documents are held at Lancashire Record Office


2) William Harper age 41, born in Scotland, was a compositor in St Bride, London in 1861
His wife Jane, 56, was born Ireland. No children.

3) In 1851 there is a William Harper, unmarried Printer Compositor age 28, born in Scotland, who is a lodger in the house of James Dobson in Preston, Lancashire. Same person?

I'm going on the assumption that William didn't die, but he and Flora went their separate ways (perhaps they were never married and the marriage of a couple by those names is a coincidence). He may have kept in touch with Archibald, hence his name and occupation were known.

Regards,
Sarah

[Geoff Rogers]

Hi to all those who involved with this mystery, a Happy New Year to everyone.

Yes I did raise this topic back in 2008 but as the shipping list had come to light recently I'd thought I'd re-investigate matters. Archibald has been very difficult to track down and a lot of my cousins and elders have been on the case a lot longer than me. In fact 1980 is the earliest date that someone was looking for his origins.

I have always tended to believe he was illegitimate from all the facts to hand. I do believe his mother, Flora Mitchell, was once married to William Harper else why would Archibald put William as his father on both of his marriage certificates. I also believe William Harper had disappeared by 1841 but where or when. The Elizabeth Mitchell on the 1841 census is believed to be Flora's daughter but who was her father?

One family source said that William Harper had died of Yellow Fever somewhere in the colonies but nothing had been found. Perhaps he had gone on ahead somewhere to set up a new life for his family.

Well this may be a tale that cannot be fully explained but one small piece of information may unlock the secret one day so that's why I am not giving up yet.

Once again thanks to all for trying so hard to help.

Geoff