Look up for surname Brisbane

[Carolann]

Hi

Checking another line and was wondering if anyone do a look up for me either for Manchester Cathedral or Morton Dumfries .

Robert Brisbane married on 03/06/1833 at Man cathedral to a Mary Rankin. His father Ebenezer Brisbane b 17/19/1788 in Morton Dumfries and married in St Stephens Parish Coleman street London in 1815 to a Sara .Sanders. However I am unable to trace Robert's Date of Birth or Date of Death Sbut know he must have died between 1849 and 1851. I think he roughly born around 1813 and don't know if there are any siblings.

Can anyone help please

carolann

[LesleyB]

Hi Carol
Have you tried a search on Free BMD just incase he died in England? And SP for Scotland - though as this is pre-1855 it will be an OPR death if if exists at all....

If you have checked both of these (and free bmd seems to have almost all indexing complete for these years) then the next step may be the MI books for each area or parish registers for Manchester. Not sure at all of the position in Manchester area, you would need to check what microfilms were available from the LDS site for example....
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library ... t_fhlc.asp
...though there are a few Brisbanes here, not the ones you are looking for:
http://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk

I'm maybe just having a non-inspirational moment, but I can't think of anywhere else that you could "look up" info such as this.

I think he roughly born around 1813

Where is he in 1841 census - and was he born in or out of county?

This lot on wonderful ol' Freecen ( www.freecen.org.uk ) seem to fit the profile:

Piece: SCT1841/571 Place: Mearns -Renfrewshire Enumeration District: 1a
Civil Parish: Mearns Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 1 Page: 14
Address: Busby, Old Mill Building

BRISBANE Robert M 30 Mechanic Outside Census County (1841)
BRISBANE Mary F 25 Outside Census County (1841)
BRISBANE William M 5 England
BRISBANE Ebenesor M 2 Outside Census County (1841)

I take it you have not been able to find him in 1851 thus your thinking that he has died - but where are Mary & wee "Ebenesor" in 1851? Playing with the search on SP (no credits to spend...) I'm seeing an eb* brisbane in Lanarkshire in 1851 on SP aged 10 which looks pretty likely - so your man, if he has died, (and there appears to be no Robert on the same page - but that is not conclusive unless Mary is listed as a widow) may well have died in Renfrewshire or Lanarkshire.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Carolann]

Hi lesley

thank you - re Robert - just keep hitting a brick wall.

Robert b 1813? whereabouts unknown - his parents Ebenezer b 19/10/1788 in Morton by Thornhill Dumfries he married Sarah Sanders in 1815 in London - they had - cannot trace any other siblings apart from Robert who married Mary Rankin in 1833 Manchester. They had 6 children Ebenezer 1834-1839, William 1835 (married Sarah Caldwell 1860), John 1837-1838, Ebenezer 1839 -1892, Marion 1843? and Margaret 1849?. The first 4 children born Manchester and Marion and Marg possibly Glasgow although not confirmed.

By the 1851 census Mary is a widow and they are back in the parish of St John Glasgow. She remarried in 1853 to a James Nish

By the 1861 census I have Mary Nish 48 Laundress, Marion 19 Cotton weaver and Margt - Boot Fitter and living in Calton Glasgow - no trace of Ebenezer or 2nd husband James Nish.

Ebenezer got married in 1863 and was an engineer and apparently invested in the Greenock Harbour Trust but lost his money as far as I am aware due to the Glasgow Docks being opened up and by-passed Greenock but this is not confirmed.

They seemed to move up and down the country but I would agree with you Lesley it would seem he would have died in Scotland Lanarkshire but nothing seems to come up.

All in all I have tried all ways to. trace Robert but no luck or am I just missing something.

Any ideas ?

[LesleyB]

Hi Carol

As he died before 1855, looks like between 1849-51 or so from what you have said, and before there was any legal requirement to record deaths, so you may find that there may not be any record of his death at all, anywhere, if you have exhausted parish records & etc. Only exception might be if he died in some dramatic accident which was in the newspapers... Might be worth confirming the two girls born in Scotland even if just to narrow that window down a bit more certainly.

Sorry not to have cheerier news, but that is how it is sometimes -
I'll bet there is not one of us on here who has a complete record of all the deaths in their tree which they know to have occurred between say 1800 and 1855!

Best wishes
Lesley

[Carolann]

An update - 1871 James Nish back in census as head of household

[nelmit]

Can't find anything else about her but in 1851 there is a Marion Brisbane born 1824 Wishaw living with Mary and children. She is indexed as her sister.

Could she be Robert's sister?

Good chance Mary applied for poor relief - have you checked that out?

Regards,
Annette

[grannysrock]

Hi Carolann
The IGI has a Margaret Eliza Brisbane baptised 1816 in St Giles, Cripplegate, London with parents Ebenezer and Sarah - this is an "extracted" record . Might this be a sister ?
www.freebmd.org.uk has a marriage of a Margaret Eliza Brisbane in 1841 at Bermondsey to a George William Relf , but I don't know if this is the same person.
Sally

[Carolann]

Hi Grannysrock
I think this is the same and is Roberts sister which would make me think Robert was born in London as well but not noted anywhere. Will have a check re marriage.

Nelmit - I saw a Marion in the census but I took it as Mary's sister as she was born in wishaw where Mary was born but now I am thinking is it roberts sister because they were up living in Scotland at the 1841 census and Robert is a Mechanical Engineer - now you have me thinking -

Do I just google Poor Relief - somehow I don't think she would apply but I am not sure because it seemed e to come down the line the Brisbanes had money so to speak but lost it in the Harbour trust.

What can I say about you all on TS - wonderful for all the help you give people like myself - very much appreciated.

Cheers

Carolann

[Margaret65]

Greetings on St. Andrew’s Day!
I was excited to find all these messages from you good folk, such a wealth of useful information for me to check out and proof positive that I have Scottish ancestry! Carol Ann, if you descend from Ebenezer, then we are cousins! I descend from his daughter Margaret Eliza Brisbane and can confirm that she married George William Relf on Christmas Day, 1841. Her father’s name is given in the marriage register of the parish church in Bermondsey, London, as Ebenezer Brisbane, occupation ‘Dead’, which was both a delight to have confirmation of his name and a frustration that there was no hope of finding him in a census unless he died between the census that year and Christmas day. The address of both bride and groom was given as Cherry Garden Street. The witnesses were William Waterhouse and an Elizabeth whose surname I could not make out on the image of the register page (London records on Ancestry.co.uk).
The death registration of an Ebenezer Brisbane is listed on FreeBMD in the first quarter of 1839 in the Manchester Registration District, Volume 20 page 573. Could this be him?
Your information that he married Sarah Sanders ties in well. George William Relf and Margaret Eliza had two children, Eliza Emma Sarah Ann Relf (known as Sarah), who was my grandmother's grandmother, and George William Abraham Relf. Two of the latter’s children had Sanders as a second forename and I’d long wondered why! I do not know anyone in his family now, though I met his daughter Margaret (‘Maggie’) Relf when she visited my late grandmother many years ago, before I got into family history research. Maggie Relf and my grandmother were both named Margaret after their grandmother, and I was in turn given the same name.
Any further information welcomed, and I will see what else I can find.
Margaret

[SarahND]

Hello Margaret65 and

Carolann last visited the forum in February, so I hope she will see your message. Always nice when two members find they descend from the same family! If she doesn't answer in a few days, then try to send her a pm. If she still has the same email address she should get a notification.

The death registration of an Ebenezer Brisbane is listed on FreeBMD in the first quarter of 1839 in the Manchester Registration District, Volume 20 page 573. Could this be him?

If I have understood Carolann's post above, that would be the death of the first child Ebenezer:

They had 6 children Ebenezer 1834-1839, William 1835 (married Sarah Caldwell 1860), John 1837-1838, Ebenezer 1839 -1892, Marion 1843? and Margaret 1849?.

Wonderful information on the Sanders middle names!

All the best,
Sarah