Kirk Session Records - Beith

[Geoff Rogers]

Hi

I'm looking for information about Kirk Session Records for Beith around 1844 -1850. Is there any place where these can be found?

I'm looking for any information about Archibald Mitchell or Harper supposedly born Beith circa 1845. I've not found any OPR birth records for him and I wondered if any Kirk Session Records may help.

Geoff

[LesleyB]

Hi Geoff

I'm looking for information about Kirk Session Records for Beith around 1844 -1850. Is there any place where these can be found?

All kirk session records or copies of the originals can be found at NAS - digital copies of almost all are available on the PCs there. They are not yet available online, though I believe there are plans to do this at some point.

I'm looking for any information about Archibald Mitchell or Harper supposedly born Beith circa 1845. I've not found any OPR birth records for him and I wondered if any Kirk Session Records may help.

Do you suspect he was illegitimate? Is this why he has alternative surnames? If so, there may indeed be something in the Session Records. Otherwise it seems unlikely - there are some birth mentions in some of the Kirk Session records but if these are a feature of the particular KS records it tends to be mentioned in the OPR lists if there were further births listed elsewhere:
http://www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/pd ... 6to620.pdf

Beith OPRs seems to cover the period you are interested in (and no note to indicate any further births in the KS records) - have you been searching on Scotlands People or elsewhere? Any sign on IGI? Where have you found info about his place of birth? Have you seen him on the 1851 census?

If you can tell us a little more about him (parents names? Do you know when/who he married or when/where he died?) and where you have looked already it will help us to help you. If he married in Scotland, under the forms of which church did it occur?...just thinking that if he was anything other than CoS he will likley not appear in the OPRs at all. e.g. could his family have been Roman Catholic, Methodist, Quaker, Free Church, Episcopalian,, etc. ?

Best wishes
Lesley

[Geoff Rogers]

Hi Lesley

Thanks for your fast reply. I've been looking for the origins of my Great Grandfather Archibald Harper for a very long time. From his first marriage in Australia in 1874 to his death there he was always known as Archibald Harper. He always stated he was born Beith on the 22nd June 1845. On both his marriage certificates in Australia he stated his parents were William Harper and Flora Mitchell. I'd found a marriage for this supposed couple on the 29th December 1830 at Kilmarnock. By 1841 Flora Mitchell is listed with her father in Beith. By 1851 she was with her brother in Kilbarchan listed as Flora Mitchell, married and living with Archibald Mitchell, her son. By June 1852 she marries James Hadden at Abbey (Paisley), Renfrewshire. Later that year James Hadden, his son Alex and Flora and Archibald all travelled to Australia under the name Hadden.

William Harper has completely disappeared by 1841, there being no sign of any census or death entries for him. As Flora was in Beith with no husband in the 1841 census I can only assume Archibald is illegitimate. As she was living in Kilbarchan in the 1851 census it's possible she went to her brother's to avoid any embarrassment. What is strange is that Archibald can name William Harper on his marriage certificates and on his death certificate his father is shown as William Harper and mother as unknown. Either William Harper was his real father or Flora told him he was his father. This is why I'm interested in any Kirk Session records. It's been such a brickwall for many years now. The marriage and emigration in 1852 were only found last week by a second cousin in Australia.

Geoff

[LesleyB]

Hi Geoff

On Freecen (http://www.freecen.org.uk) in 1841, is this the lady you think is your Flora?
Living at New Street, Beith, Ayrshire
MITCHELL Hugh M 60 Book Binder born outside Census County
MITCHELL James M 15 Hand Loom Weaver born Ayrshire
MITCHELL Flora F 30 Seam Sower born outside Census County
MITCHELL Elizabeth F 5 born Ayrshire

Is the 5yr old Elizabeth a daughter of hers? It can be difficult to tell in the 1841 with no relationships listed.
It's not unusual in Scotland for women to be listed under their maiden names, so that alone is not conclusive. But you'd expect young Elizabeth to be listed under Harper if she was a child of the marriage....
Who else is in the household in 1851? How old was Flora listed as in 1851 and what was her occupation? If William (her supposed husband) was deceased, I'd be expecting her to be listed as a widow - but she is not?

The marriage you mentioned can be found on IGI http://www.familysearch.org

WILLIAM HARPER
Marriages:
Spouse: FLORA MITCHELL
Marriage: 29 DEC 1830 Kilmarnock, Ayr, Scotland
- have you seen the original of this? (just incase there are any wee clues, as sometimes there are, but often not)

...and also the later one you mentioned:
FLORA MITCHELL
Marriages:
Spouse: JAMES HADDEN
Marriage: 21 JUN 1852 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Hi again Geoff,

Are there any indication of the ages of the passengers when the Haddon party travels to Australia?

I'm also not quite understanding why Archibald's surname would, theoretically, go from Harper(at birth?) to Mitchell (when with his mother who has possibly reverted to her maiden surname in 1841 & 51) to Hadden (on marriage of his mother in 1852) and then back to Harper.

What is strange is that Archibald can name William Harper on his marriage certificates and on his death certificate his father is shown as William Harper and mother as unknown.

On the marriage certs, Archibald himself will most likely have given the details, but of course, at the time of his death the information is reliant on the death informant, who may be clueless......

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

The 1851 at Kilbarchan lists:
Flora Mitchell, sister, married, 42, dressmaker (so similar to 1841 occupation) born Morton, Dumfriesshire
followed by
Archibald Mitchell, nephew, 6, born Beith, Ayrshire

Head of household is on the page before (but I've no credits left to check that...) and Margaret Mitchell, wife aged 30 bon Kilbarchan, with an occupation of Pirnwinder, is listed at the top of the page I have. What was Flora's brother's name?

And this may be her christening (extract) on IGI
FLORA MITCHELL :
Female
Christening: 06 AUG 1809 Morton By Thornhill, Dumfries, Scotland
Parents:
Father: HUGH MITCHELL
Mother: ELIZABETH HUNTER

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

IGI has the following children to a couple, Hugh Mitchell and Elizabeth Hunter:

AGNES MITCHELL
Female Christening: 24 MAR 1805 Morton By Thornhill, Dumfries, Scotland

FLORA MITCHELL - International Genealogical Index
Female Christening: 06 AUG 1809 Morton By Thornhill, Dumfries, Scotland

CATHARINE MITCHELL - International Genealogical Index
Female Christening: 09 NOV 1813 Morton By Thornhill, Dumfries, Scotland

ELIZABETH MITCHELL
Female Birth: 18 JUL 1821 Morton By Thornhill, Dumfries, Scotland

JAMES MITCHELL
Male Birth: 20 MAR 1824
Christening: 23 MAR 1824 Beith, Ayr, Scotland

GRACE MITCHELL
Female Birth: 09 JAN 1828
Christening: 17 FEB 1828 Beith, Ayr, Scotland

- so that James aged 15 in the 1841 with father Hugh seems to fit (given the "rounding down" of ages in the 1841). Is it James she is with in 1851?

[SarahND]

Hi Lesley and Geoff,
Coming at this from a slightly different direction, you have probably seen that the only Harper family in Beith in 1841 are John and his wife Elizabeth and their children. They were married in 1823 in Kilbarchan, so there is definitely a connection between the two places for both Harpers and Mitchells. John's occupation in 1841 was Smith, and I don't see him off-hand in 1851. Do you know William's occupation?

It would be a good idea, as Lesley suggests, to download the 1830 marriage to see if William's occupation is given. For example, there is a William Harper, born in Ireland 1802-6, who is a private in the 17th lancers in 1841 in Govan. If he was a soldier, this might explain why he wasn't around for the censuses with his family.

If he was really Archibald's father, he must have lived until at least 1844, so must appear somewhere in 1841...

All the best,
Sarah

[LesleyB]

Hi Sarah

If he was really Archibald's father, he must have lived until at least 1844, so must appear somewhere in 1841...

Unless he was the soldier...when I suppose he could be out of the country alltogether?

I'm not having much luck on IGI or playing with the SP search with the kids shown on the census with mother Margaret Mitchell ( wife aged 30 born Kilbarchan, with an occupation of Pirnwinder) in the 1851:
Hugh aged 8
Stephen aged 4
Catherine aged 2 - alll apparently born in Kilbarchan according to the 1851
Not seeing any of them....

Are they maybe not CoS?

Also with that 1851 pages we are assuming that Archibald Mitchell aged 6 (a nephew to head of household) is the son of Flora Mitchell aged 42 (the sister of head of household) but there is no proof on that census page that he is... it is possible that he might be the son of another sibling of the head of the household.

Sarah - do you have access to the name of the head of that household in 1851? That part of Renfrewshire does not seem to be on freecen yet by the looks of things.

Time to have a cup of tea, methinks.....

[SarahND]

Sarah - do you have access to the name of the head of that household in 1851? That part of Renfrewshire does not seem to be on freecen yet by the looks of things.

Ancestry calls him Stephens Mitchell, age 32, born Morton, Dumfrieshire, Hand Loom Weaver (wool)

Cheers,
Sarah

Later: Although not in the online IGI, SP has the birth of a Stephen Mitchell in 1819 in Morton, Dumfries, parents Hugh and Elizabeth Hunter