Peter Elder of Cupar Fife .....

[Kathleen Page]

I am thrilled to find this site but am feeling rather timid about posting. I have been able to trace my paternal line back to Peter Elder and Isabel Watson from Cupar Fife. Peter was born about 1803, Isabel about 1807. It seems that the trail ends here. Any suggestions on where to look next? Also, at the Family History centers, do they have copies of birth certificates?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Kathleen

[LesleyB]

Hi Kathleen
..and a warm welcome to Talking Scot

Do you know if either Peter or Isobel died after 1855 - the year that Statutory Registration began in Scotland? If so you could try looking for the deaths of either Peter or Isobel on Scotlands People?(link at top of page) Their death entry should give you the names of their parents.

You can also search the census there - might be worth looking at 1851 for this family. The 1841 is not online yet. You can order films of the census from your local LDS Family History Centre too.

There are three children who you probably know about already, mentioned on the IGI :

• 1. SOPHIA ELDER - (extract)
  Gender: Female Christening: 31 DEC 1837 Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  
  2. James Elder - (Submission)
  Gender: Male Christening: 04 MAR 1835
  
  3. HELEN ELDER - (extract)
  Gender: Female Christening: 08 JUL 1832 Cupar, Fife, Scotland

Also, at the Family History centers, do they have copies of birth certificates?

I don't think so, but I don't know for certain. The Scotlands People web site do have copies of births after 1855 but before that date births were recorded in the Old Parish Registers - the LDS family history centres do have copies on microfilm of OPR material and you can order any film you want to see for a small fee.

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Hi Kathleen
Just had a look on the Fife Death Index and a Peter Elder died in Cupar on 11 Dec 1850, aged 55 of asthma (OPR420-5) No further information given so may not be your man...

Best wishes
Lesley

[Liz Turner]

Dear Kathleen

Welcome! Don't be shy about asking questions here - the people are very friendly and exceptionally helpful, even when they point out the obvious to you!! I'm not at my own computer at the moment, but I do have some Elders in my extended family tree. My relatives come from the area of Fife around Pittenweem and when I get the chance, I'll look them up and come back to you with information - I'm actually on my lunch break just now at work! I've also been in touch with a couple in Canada who also trace back to the same line as me.

Liz

[Kathleen Page]

Hello Liz and Lesley,

Thanks for the warm welcome. I don't know how to reply separately so please forgive the "group" reply.

Liz, it would be very exciting if we were related. Let me know. I know there was a large extended family in Cupar that were linked to Peter and Isabel. As Lesley mentioned, they have Sophia, Helen and James in addition to Alexander (my great great grandfather), Euphemia and David.

Lesley, I have looked everywhere for Peter's death certificate but have been unable to find it. It may be the Peter who died in Cupar on December 11, 1850. I will try looking for Isabel. I do know about Sophia, Helen and James. They also had a son Alexander, my great-great grandfather, born about 1828. I have connected to a distant cousin that lives in Scotland and will see if he knows about this site. He has been extremely helpful in helping me find out about my own past. I'm going to the local Family History Centre and hope to uncover more exciting journey.

Thanks again.

Kathleen

[LesleyB]

Hi Kathleen
If Peter died before 1855 it is unlikely you will find a certificate as such. OPR entries can be scanty, often not giving much help to determine if it is your guy or not. I'll try to check it next time I'm in Cupar, just in case there is any little bit of info which might identify the one who died. No sign of Peter (or Isobel) in the Monumental Inscriptions for Cupar.

What did your Peter do for a living? Do you know where in Cupar they lived? Have you seen them in a census - 1841 or 51? - these may give additional clues. There seems to be a 1yr old Peter Elder in Cupar in the 1851 census and a 4yr old Isabel - grandchildren maybe? Not seeing Peter and Isabel senior though.....but there is a 23yr old Alexander Elder in Cupar in 1851.

Marriage entries for any of their children after 1855 should also indicate if the parents are alive or not, so that may help too.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Liz Turner]

Dear Kathleen

I'm just having a quick look through my own Elder stuff. As I said, I don't really have much and mostly what I have is from Pittenweem and Anstruther, and Kilrenny which are villages on the coast of Fife, while Cupar is further inland. I've got some notes that I made which I got from others researching in the area. Have you checked out the Fife Family History website http://www.fifefhs.org/

I've also found the Fife Post web site to ge useful. http://www.thefifepost.com/genealogy.htm

I will pm you over the weekend with some other contacts that I have, which may or may not be connected to your Elders.

Added later: If the Peter Elder who died in 1850 aged 55 is yours, perhaps this entry below could be his birth??

1. Peter Elder - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Birth: 08 MAY 1796 Cupar, Fife, Scotland [Remove]
2. Peter Elder - International Genealogical Index - British Isles



Good luck with your searches.....

[LesleyB]

Hi Kathleeen
The PEter Elder born in Cupar on IGI is a submission, so may or may not be reliable..
Did you notice there is one born in Ceres (3 miles from Cupar, small village, Cupar was the central market town)

PETER ELDER - International Genealogical Index
Birth: 05 JAN 1798
Male Christening: 07 JAN 1798 Ceres, Fife, Scotland
Father: PETER ELDER
Mother: EUPHEMIA HOWIE

Elder is not a common name in this area as far as I'm aware. If not your man, he could be a cousin maybe?

Have you seen them in a census - 1841 or 51?

Whoops...forgot -the '41 for Cupar does not exist....

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Hi Kathleen
From what you mentioned in a PM about the Aunt Euphemia, this looks like her here:

• Dwelling: 16 Newtown
  Census Place: Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Source: FHL Film 0203519 GRO Ref Volume 420 EnumDist 6 Page 4
  
  William WILLIAMSON M 34 M Monimail, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Head
  Occ: Van Driver
  Sophia WILLIAMSON M 39 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Wife
  Occ: Van Drivers Wife
  Isabella W. WILLIAMSON 7 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Dau
  Occ: Scholar
  George WILLIAMSON 6 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Son
  Occ: Scholar
  Peter B. WILLIAMSON 1 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Son
  Euphemia ELDER U 58 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Sister In Law
  Occ: Factory Worker (Linen)
  James FOWLES U 24 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Neph
  Occ: Mason (Unemp)

So that looks like Sophia Elder married Mr. Williamson.
IGI says:
SOPHIA ELDER
Spouse: WILLIAM WILLIAMSON
Marriage: 13 DEC 1872 Cupar, Fife, Scotland
...but maybe you know this already.
Should be in Cupar tomorrow, so will see if I can find the houses you mentioned - just hope the weather holds...

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Its "Long Shot" time! Could this be Alexander's brother James b. abt 1835. He has has son Peter...

• Dwelling: Rodger Street
  Census Place: Anstruther Easter, Fife, Scotland
  Source: FHL Film 0203516 GRO Ref Volume 402 EnumDist 2 Page 8
  James ELDER M 44 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Head
  Occ: House Painter
  Margaret ELDER M 44 F Kemback, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Wife
  Agnes ELDER U 18 F Crail, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Daur
  Occ: Machinist
  Isabella ELDER U 15 F Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Daur
  Occ: Pupil Teacher
  Margaret ELDER U 13 F Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Daur
  Occ: Dressmaker
  Peter ELDER 9 M Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Son
  Occ: Scholar
  James ELDER 6 M Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Son
  Occ: Scholar
  Christina ELDER 4 F Anstruther E, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Daur
  Occ: Scholar

and given the address I'd be surprised if this lady isn't connected somehow...

• Dwelling: 7 Newtown
  Census Place: Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Source: FHL Film 0203519 GRO Ref Volume 420 EnumDist 6 Page 2
  Helen ELDER U 30 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Head
  Occ: Washerwoman
  Thomas DUNCAN W 60 M Strathmiglo, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Boarder
  Occ: Blacksmith
  Jessie IRELAND U 19 F Dundee, Forfar, Scotland
  Rel: Boarder
  Occ: Factory Worker (Winder)

And this one just along the road, near the Williamsons at no.16:

• Dwelling: 17 Newtown
  Census Place: Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Source: FHL Film 0203519 GRO Ref Volume 420 EnumDist 6 Page 4
  David ELDER M 57 M Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Head
  Occ: Mason
  Ann ELDER M 62 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Wife
  Occ: Masons Wife
  Anna HAMILTON 8 F Cupar, Fife, Scotland
  Rel: Grd Dau
  Occ: Scholar

Best wishes
Lesley