Overseas births on 1837online Update no longer confused.....

[ladybird]

Can I pick your brains please?
Having a few spare credits on 1837online I printed off a few pages of Townsend births from the overseas section.

There are a lot, but the ones that interest me are...

Matilda Townsend, Glasgow 1855, 41st Regiment, vol 1325 page 14

Robina Townsend, Kirkintulloch (sp?), 41st Regiment, vol 1325 page 14
Robina Townsend, Kirkintilloch, 70th Regiment, vol 1053 page 36

and another possible son I didn't know about
John Townsend, Sealkote, 41st Regiment, vol 1325 page 14

Now, given that I know the father Robert Townsend/ Townsley was in the army and in India part of the time, my questions please...

1/ I have Matilda Townsend on the British Vital Index giving parents as Robert Townslie/Mary Ann Conway (correct) Born in the District of St Nicholas in the Burgh of Aberdeen 24 Jun 1855.
Could she have been born Aberdeen and baptised Glasgow - or vice versa?

2/ Why is Robina Townsend entered twice? (she's correct too) And why 2 different Regiments?

3/ Is John Townsend likely to be another child of the same couple given the same Regiment, vol and page no's

4/ What was a good Scottish lad like Robert Townsend doing in the Welch (41st) Reg. anyway?

Your thought please would really be appreciated
Sylvia

[mean_genie]

Sylvia

I'm not surprised you're confused by these entries from the Miscellanous and Overseas Indexes! The actual records come in a variety of formats, but this is not obvoius from the indexes. This is also what causes some apparent duplicate entries, for instance where the same information is recorded in both a birth and a baptism register. But in answer to your questions...

1. It is certainly possible for a child to be born in one place and baptised elsewhere.

2. & 3. The entry for Robina in Vol 1053 is probably from a birth or baptism register, while the other entry is from a quite different source. You will notice that the other entry for her has exactly the same reference as the two other births, although they took place in different places and in different years. This means that a whole family group appears on one page, complete with dates and places of birth, and John is another child from the same family. Unfortunately, if you order a certificate you will only get the details for one person - there's no way you can get to see the whole page with the family group on it.
I can't think of any good reason for the two different regiments, other than to suggest that the 70th is simply a mistake, either in the record or the indexing.

4. Men ended up in all sorts of regiments, often quite unconnected with their own place of birth. Regiments moved around Britain (and the Empire) and the 41st would have been the one that was stationed at the barracks closest to where he lived at the time when he joined up. I have 2 Irish ancestors who were in the army, one in a Highland regiment, the other one in a Kent regiment.

I hope this helps

Mean_genie

[DavidWW]

Sylvia

Something doesn't make sense here.

Matilda's statutory birth register entry from Aberdeen shows that her father was a 26 year old tinsmith, married in Glasgow, born Maybole in Ayrshire, wife born in Edinburgh, - so a very well travelled couple for the period.

Not impossible that they were in Glasgow later in 1855, - do these 1837online records give any dates?, or parents' names?

No sign of the Aberdeen family anywhere in Scotland in the 1861 census, although, just to show what coincidence can do there is a 31 year old Robert TOWNSLEE, intinerant Tinsman, on Jura, but the wife's name is different, and a check on one of the children's births gives an 1851 marriage in Campbelton. .............

My 3ggrandfather and his brother served for a few years in the Aberdeenshire Militia in the first few years of the 1800s. My direct ancestor reverted to civilian life on discharge but his brother joined a regular regiment, going on to serve right through the Peninsular Campaign, and Waterloo, ending up with 26 years service in the 51st Oxfordshire Light Infantry. Unfortunately northing has come down the family as to why he joined that regiment. All I know is that the muster rolls of the 51st show that several soldiers had served with the Aberdeenshire Militia.

David

[ladybird]

Thank you for your thoughts, Mean-genie and David.

David
The only thing I can think with Matilda is that she was registered by both parents, her mother in Aberdeen and her father in Glasgow. Her mother Matilda may have put the father Robert down as a Tinsmith even though he'd joined the army...oh dear, confusion is right.
Robina's year is 1858 and John 1865, no parents names given on the GRO ref.

The only sensible solution is to send for all the certs and see what they reveal.... which I have just done

The thing that's annoying me really is if the father Robert was in the 41st Reg, then I have been looking in the wrong place.
His son Francis joined the Sutherland Highlanders (93rd) in India in 1879 and I assumed (I know ..never assume!) ...that he joined his father's Reg.

(David, you have Francis' discharge papers that I sent)

I'll keep you posted...I may have entirely the wrong family, but there are too many coincidences to ignore the GRO entries completely.
regards Sylvia

[DavidWW]

.....much snipped ...............
(David, you have Francis' discharge papers that I sent)

I'll keep you posted...I may have entirely the wrong family, but there are too many coincidences to ignore the GRO entries completely.
regards Sylvia

Agreed, - has to be worth a look !!

David

[ladybird]

Hi folks
Just to let you know that the birth certs have been received.

They are all mine, woohoo, even the son John that I didn't know about

They also have the Baptismal dates which is possibly why Matilda was born June 1855 in Aberdeen but baptised in July 1855 in Glasgow. Somewhere between those dates it looks as if father Robert joined the army (They were in Aberdeen for the 1851 Census)

Father Robert Townsend was in the 41st Welsh Regiment of Foot on all the certs, though how he didn't manage to rise above Private in the 10 years covered by the certs I don't know. Any ideas David?

Now all I have to do is find the other sister!!!! Possibly Catherine...possibly born c1850.

Thanks for listening to my burblings folks
Sylvia

[DavidWW]

Hi folks
Just to let you know that the birth certs have been received.

They are all mine, woohoo, even the son John that I didn't know about

They also have the Baptismal dates which is possibly why Matilda was born June 1855 in Aberdeen but baptised in July 1855 in Glasgow. Somewhere between those dates it looks as if father Robert joined the army (They were in Aberdeen for the 1851 Census)

Father Robert Townsend was in the 41st Welsh Regiment of Foot on all the certs, though how he didn't manage to rise above Private in the 10 years covered by the certs I don't know. Any ideas David?

Now all I have to do is find the other sister!!!! Possibly Catherine...possibly born c1850.

Thanks for listening to my burblings folks
Sylvia

Sylvia

Great to hear.

My 3ggreatuncle was 26 years in the Oxfordshire LI, 51st of Foot, and never rose above private. Either they didn't want promotion, or their disciplinary records meant that they weren't offered it, or there were cycles of promotion/demotion

David

[ladybird]

Thanks David
I did wonder if the Townsend "sheer cussedness" (am I allowed to say that?) had something to do with it. It's renowned in the family!
Sylvia

[DavidWW]

Thanks David
I did wonder if the Townsend "sheer cussedness" (am I allowed to say that?) had something to do with it. It's renowned in the family!
Sylvia

It's something I've come across in both military and naval situations, through autobiographies, where the man involved simply didn't want what he saw as the repsonsibility that came with a promotion.

David