IGI Marriage Puzzle? .....

garibaldired · Post by **garibaldired** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:53 am

Perhaps someone can help me out of my muddle here please?
I have the following (all extracts not submissions):

JAMES DOBIE = JANET VICKARS 28 FEB 1846 COCKPEN

JAMES DOBBIE = JANET MCVICKERS 28 FEB 1846 NEWBATTLE

JAMES DOBBIE = JANET MCVICKERS 16 JAN 1847 LASSWADE

JAMES DOBBIE = JANET MCVICKERS 16 JAN 1847 NEWBATTLE

I also have (to muddy the waters further)

JAMES DOBBIE = ELIZABETH BUCHAN 26 JUN 1846 NEWBATTLE
but Elizabeth died (in childbirth?) and he marries the sister JANET.

Am I dealing with 2 or 3 James Dobie here and how do I sort them out?I can't confirm any births with a Mcvickers mother or am I missing something?
Grateful for any thoughts please!
Meg

Post by **joette** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:00 pm

Hi Meg my instant reaction was "Oh it's the Banns being cried in their own Parishes" I have a similiar one with my rellies in the same Parishes-he Newbattle,she Lasswade.
However sometimes it pays to have a look on SP at the OPR entry to clarify things.
I had one where it appeared that the Father was married to two women at the same time & one had given birth to the same named child either Feb.1811-to Janet Gray.Feb 1812-Jean Cowie.April 1812-Janet Gray.
All extracts on the IGI on further investigation it turned out he had a child with Janet Gray-1811.He then Fathered a child with Jean Cowie.He then married Janet Gray & she gives birth to a 2nd William in April 1812-I presume the 1st William died.There is even a OPR entry which states he had a child in fornication with Jean Cowie.Had to pick one to marry & went with my GGGGreat-Granny.
Would the 1851 Census clarify things for you?Have you tried the Lothians Family History Society? They are fantastic & helped me trace a lot of my Lothian ancestors.
I also have another one in Penicuik who marries his wife's sister after the first died in childbirth.It really stumped me but again LFHC & the Census put me on the right track.

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:12 pm

Hello Meg

IGI often have what appears to be multiple entries since they are drawn(extracted) from the Old Parochial records. In Scotland it used to be required by the church that any couple declaring their intention to marry had to have their Banns called on at least three occasions. the purpose of this was to allow anyone who had reason to believe the marriage should not take place, to voice their objections.
If the bride was from one parish, and the prospective groom from another then Banns would be called in his parish as well as hers.
As you can see there is potential here for six entries to be recorded in the old registers. Dates were not always at strict intervals for calling the Banns and sometimes the gap between could be quite short if the parish concerned had services on days other than a Sunday.
The calling of Banns was not a record of the marriage. A marriage need not be recorded although fortunately for us, sometimes it was.
Marriages were not conducted in church. that is a relatively recent thing,
They usually took place in someone's home.
On the second problem.
IGI sometimes put down the name of the place at other times it was the name of the parish. This sometimes needs a bit of research into history and geography to clarify.
e.g. marriages in the parish of Balmaghie (in Kirkcudbrightshire)can give no place name other than that of the church itself as there are NO villages round about.
Marriages in Abbey, Paisley did not take place in the town at all but were in surrounding small villages affiliated to the Abbey church itself.

You probably have only one James Dobie/Dobbie marrying Janet Vickars/Vickers and there has been difficulty reading the original handwriting in the records for the dates.
I would suspect the other entry is for a cousin or other relative. They still tended to stay around the same place then.
Hope this has clarified the waters to some extent.

Russell

garibaldired · Post by **garibaldired** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:37 pm

Joette and Russell,

First of all thank you very much for all that. It has certainly given me a lot to work on.
I have looked on the IGI for births for the couple but can only find them under James Dobie and - wait for it!- Janet McNickers. They have
James bn 1847 Cockpen
William bn 1849 Cockpen
John bn 1850 Cockpen.
In 1851 there is a couple in Newbattle with 3 sons of the right age as this but who I thought were James and Janet (Buchan) Dobbie as there is a daughter Elizabeth (right age again!) who is James first wife's daughter.
Could all these IGI entries be for the same James?
I can find no death for Janet Dobbie (Buchan, Mcnickers, Mcvickers)either.

Oh dear am I making sense here? My head is hurting!
Meg

PS Perhaps I have a case like yours after all Joette?!

garibaldired · Post by **garibaldired** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:50 pm

I have a correction! I've just checked the birth of one Andrew Dobie born 1855 (how lucky is that?) in Dalkeith to James Dobbie/Janet Buchan. He is their 3rd child;they have one boy one girl living. So it looks like James/Janet Mcvickers are the ones in Newbattle in 1851; the others were in Dalkeith (just off to check!).
Thanks for listening to my ramblings!
Meg

I've checked. I can only find one couple - the one in Newbattle. And they are there in 1861 again with said Andrew plus Catherine (9) and Thomas(3) but no William or John. So........?
I'm going to give my brain a rest and have some lunch!
Meg

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:11 pm

Hi Meg

That was one of the easier ones.

Maybe you should give your brain the lunch and the rest of you have the rest

Russell

garibaldired · Post by **garibaldired** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:18 pm

Oh very witty, Russell ! =D>

Regards,
Meg

Post by **joette** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:27 pm

William & John- worse case scenario both died between 1855 & 1861.
More likely they are visiting/living with Granny,Auntie or Mrs Next-Door.

garibaldired · Post by **garibaldired** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:16 pm

Having spent most of the afternoon (and a great deal of money!) poring over what I have, I now think James Dobbie/Janet Buchan are the ones in Newbattle so that would explain no John or William - they belong to the other couple! However I still can't identify James Dobbie/Janet McNickers(Mcvickers) in the 1851/1861/1871/1881 censuses!
So half way there!
Meg

garibaldired · Post by **garibaldired** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:28 pm

I'd appreciate any ideas on this please.
Despite extensive searching I cannot find a Janet (Mc)Vickers on the 1841 census, though I can find a Janet Buchan and an Elizabeth Buchan, sisters in Newbattle.
I can find a marriage for a James Dobbie and Elizabeth Buchan, but not for James Dobbie and Janet Buchan.
The only reference I can find to a Janet McVickers (& variants) is on the IGI). I can only find one couple with the James/Janet Dobbie combination in the 1851 census and subsequently.
Could Janet Buchan be masquerading as Janet McVickers? (Incidentally I can't find a Janet Buchan/ ? Mc vickers marriage).
I feel like I'm going round in cicles here!

Meg