Why 1855 and not earlier ?

[djcrtoye]

Why did it take so long after registration in England in 1837 for Scotalnd to go down that road. Was it the power of the Church of Scotland in losing its monopoly in registration or just at the time the powers that be thought we could muddle on with the haphazard system. What changed their minds to start registration of every bmd in Scotland. Thanks

[DavidWW]

Why did it take so long after registration in England in 1837 for Scotalnd to go down that road. Was it the power of the Church of Scotland in losing its monopoly in registration or just at the time the powers that be thought we could muddle on with the haphazard system. What changed their minds to start registration of every bmd in Scotland. Thanks

Partly the CoS, as well as objections from other stakeholders.

It was mainly the chaos that resulted from the Disruption that hastened the 1854 Act, but this was something like the 8th attempt to get a Bill through parliament, - the first, from memory, was in the 1830s.

But just think, we maybe had to wait a few years, but we got a system superior to that in England in terms of the info that the registers contain, never mind those vitally different few words in the Scottish registration Act that allows the Registrar General in Scotland to allow us more open and easier access than is the case in England, BTW, it's not a legal right but a priviledge based on the RGs' interpretation of the Act.

Never forget as well that civil registration was compulsory from the very beginning in Scotland in 1855, whereas it didn't become compulsory in England until 1875

David

[emanday]

But just think, we maybe had to wait a few years, but we got a system superior to that in England in terms of the info that the registers contain, never mind those vitally different few words in the Scottish registration Act that allows the Registrar General in Scotland to allow us more open and easier access than is the case in England, BTW, it's not a legal right but a priviledge based on the RGs' interpretation of the Act.
David

Which only goes to prove that the best things are always worth waiting for

I'm trying to sort out my son-in-law's English ancestry as well (but only when I'm in mode with my Scottish/Irish rellies) and find it maddening as it appears that the marriage registers I've looked at so far don't give the spouse's name!

[DavidWW]

But just think, we maybe had to wait a few years, but we got a system superior to that in England in terms of the info that the registers contain, never mind those vitally different few words in the Scottish registration Act that allows the Registrar General in Scotland to allow us more open and easier access than is the case in England, BTW, it's not a legal right but a priviledge based on the RGs' interpretation of the Act.
David

Which only goes to prove that the best things are always worth waiting for

I'm trying to sort out my son-in-law's English ancestry as well (but only when I'm in mode with my Scottish/Irish rellies) and find it maddening as it appears that the marriage registers I've looked at so far don't give the spouse's name!

Yesterday I was involved in the BBC Scotland series, "Digging Up Your Roots", - it hits the airwaves starting 07Jan2006 at noon, - at New Register House, when two new researchers were challenged to find as many as possible of their great great grandparents in just a few hours.

In one case, due to the father being born in England, the research was limited to the 8 great great grandparents on the maternal side, all of whom were very quickly identified, not least including via the digitised images of the various statutory register entries.

Beyond that, a number of 3g and 4g parents were identified.

For the other new researcher, 14 of her 16 possible gg grandparents were readily found (the missing two derived from illegitimacies), plus, later in the day, a significant number of 3g and 4g grandparents.

To achieve such results in the English records would have cost several £100 to view the actual register entries, especially taking into account records that turned out to be unconnected, - as the English reality is that the certificate has to be purchased at £7.00 in order that the details can be viewed, - never mind the time period involved from order to receipt of the certificate, - at very best 3 or 4 days, extending to as long as 10 or 15 days, - along with effect that such a cycle time can have on the overall time required to achieve certain results in Scotland.

The Scottish cost?, - £17 for a day at NRH, plus a few bawbies in terms of 50p photocopies for death records in 1955 and earlier, 1930 and earlier for marriage, and 1905 and earlier for births, - these year limits match what can be viewed online at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk , and the year limits will become 1956/1931/1906 on 1st January 2007.

In other words, in Scotland, a matter of a day or not much more to achieve such results; whereas weeks, if not months are required to achieve equivalent results in the English and Welsh records.

The results, readily and easily achieved by the two novice researchers y'day at New Register House, could very easily have taken something between 2 and maybe even 6 months to achieve in the English records, given the many cycles required of purchasing certificates........... the costs of which could easily have been £200, or £300, or even much more, especially if SMITHs or BROWNs or similar were involved.

David

[AnneM]

the 1854 Act, but this was something like the 8th attempt to get a Bill through parliament, - the first, from memory, was in the 1830s.

David

Come on now David. We're all getting on a bit but that is surely pushing it. Or is the secret of your genealogical success that you are in fact a time lord???

Anne

[DavidWW]

the 1854 Act, but this was something like the 8th attempt to get a Bill through parliament, - the first, from memory, was in the 1830s.

David

Come on now David. We're all getting on a bit but that is surely pushing it. Or is the secret of your genealogical success that you are in fact a time lord???

Anne

From memory of the research carried out for an article 18 months ago for "Ancestors" on the 150th anniversary of state sponsored civil registration in Scotland.....

David

[emanday]

Your description of the cost and time differences between Scottish and English research exactly describes the experience I am having. I am currently waiting for an English MC to arrive. It has already been eight days and, because the spouse's name was not given, even if the year, location (possibly) and quarter matched, it could arrive and NOT be the rellie am seeking!

Would you know, David, if the parents of a bride and groom were, in the past, recorded at the time of the marriage in England, but simply not included on the marriage certificate?

My daughter's marriage certificate only shows her father's name, but I know that both our names were written in the register just before the wedding. I was not only in the room, I was actually asked for this information, as was my son-in-law's father.

Another thing I feel I should mention, I recently ordered a copy of my sister-in-law's BC for an overseas birth. I could have asked her to photocopy the copy she has that she got to get a new passport after getting married. (Having stated that she was born outwith the UK they requested her BC to prove her entitlement to a UK passport, even though she'd been a UK passport holder for many years).

Instead, I ordered one and, surprise! The one I got had more information on it than the one she'd applied for personally a few years ago! My copy actually gave both her her parents' names AND address at the time of her birth, something she'd never been able to remember! It also stated which generation of her father's ancestors caused his entitlement to British Citizenship. NONE of the family had known that!

[BobG]

Mary

For the past year most of my research has been concentrated in England tracing three families who migrated there in the 1880's from the Elgin area. English birth records contain the names of both parents and the occupation of the father. Mother's maiden name is given. Marriage certificates list only father's name and occupation while death certificates do not list the deceased's parents at all.

Interestingly, a women's death certificate may list her husband's name under the heading of "occupation"…"Widow of John J. Smith, blacksmith". I have received a number of death certificates for men that give no mention of a wife's name, unless she was the informant. In the past year I have ordered from England's GRO 137 BMDs. Only 4 were not who I wanted.

BobG

[emanday]

Mary

For the past year most of my research has been concentrated in England tracing three families who migrated there in the 1880's from the Elgin area. English birth records contain the names of both parents and the occupation of the father. Mother's maiden name is given. Marriage certificates list only father's name and occupation while death certificates do not list the deceased's parents at all.

Interestingly, a women's death certificate may list her husband's name under the heading of "occupation"…"Widow of John J. Smith, blacksmith". I have received a number of death certificates for men that give no mention of a wife's name, unless she was the informant. In the past year I have ordered from England's GRO 137 BMDs. Only 4 were not who I wanted.

BobG

Hi BobG,

I dare say the actual birth records have more information, but the registers don't. For example, I have been searching for the births of Crichton's in West Ham, London for the 1880's/90's. From the censuses, I have a good idea of likely years these children were born. While I found some, the register only names the child, but NOT either of the parents, not even the father's given name. That, at least, would be helpful.

The family I have mentioned are likely to be mine as there doesn't appear to be any other Crichton family in West Ham for the period I am researching. If, however, I were unsure of the exact birthplace and or quarter of the year, and only had the child's name, I probably have to "take pot luck" and select the most likely. Too many potentially expensive mistakes for my liking.

I have found marriages of males with the right name in the right year for some of my other research but, because the spouse name was not shown on the register, cannot be sure which of them is the correct one.