Can you work out what the words are?.....

[LesleyB]

Hi all
I've been looking at this one for some days now, with little inspiration, and thought some fresh eyes might help. The words appear in a deed of settlement from 1789 & I have seen the original - it is not much clearer!

on page 8, what seems to say:

.....effectuating The said infeftment by resignation I hereby make and Constitute _______________[blank] and each of them ______? & ______? my lawful presents giving granting and committing to them my full power and commission to compear before my ....etc.....

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-960
The words look like connly and Sealy and I think the meaning is "collectively and singly", but what are those words? I've exhausted my Scots dictionary, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place!! I suspect they may be abbreviated forms of words perhaps?

What appears to be the same words appear again on page 10
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-959

....My prets [presents] allow to the effect the said Disponees may be infeft in the subjects before and aforementioned. I hereby desire And require you ________[blank] upon and each of you ____? and _____? my Baillies in that part to the Effect underwritten specially constitute That upon sight hereof ye pays to the grounds of the said Lands and there give and deliver heritable state and sasine Real actual...etc....

They look like Cayunelly and Seally this time... The writer's letter "a" is in a very open stye throughout the document which makes it look like it is more than one latter at times.

Any suggestions as to what those words are would be very gratefully received.
Best wishes
Lesley

p.s. Why is that Scots dictionaries don't come with the "opposite way round" bit at the back like Latin/French/German ones do, where you could look up variations on the words "collectively" and "singly" in Scots for instance...? Right now, that would be a BIG help

[DavidWW]

I'm near certain it's "conjunctly and severally", - in the both cases abbreviated for the latter, and once for the former..........

...meaning in law where each of the persons named is singly liable etc. for the whole of the obligation etc.

David

[LesleyB]

David
I think you might just be right - well done!! =D>
Se[ver]ally...makes perfect sense as does con[junct]ly.

Many thanks
Best wishes
Lesley

[DavidWW]

David
I think you might just be right - well done!! =D>
Se[ver]ally...makes perfect sense as does con[junct]ly.

Many thanks
Best wishes
Lesley

Just in case anyone gets the wrong impression, I'm not particularly good at reading documents like this

Instead I have a reasonable knowledge of the standard terms, and, where that fails me, know where to look.

In this case I was 95+% certain that it would be one of several standard terms with the same general meaning , not least on the basis of the second word most probably being Se[ver]ally.

Con[junct]ly took a couple of minutes with The Concise Scots Dictionary, via the wrong interpretation first of Conjointly But that was via an unsuccessful foray into The Stair Society's Formularly of Old Scots Legal Documents.

The biggest problem here most often derives from the fact that were no "standard" abbreviations, very short words apart, such as "Ye" for "The", the "Y" being in fact a thorn (see http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/cont ... ge=s4_3_16 ) with everyone doing their own thing, - sometimes ending up with a similar result, sometimes not. What there were, but I can't see any trace here, were standard marks to indicate that the word was abbreviated.

David

[LesleyB]

Hi David
I think you are quite right - half the battle sometime is knowing what vocabulary is likely and what the usual form of a document is.

Er.....I've another wee tricky bit...will scan it in shortly and would be most appreciative of your help with it.

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

OK. Other tricky bit.
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-964

...or survivor of them to be Tutors & Curators to my children under age at my decease during their pupillarity & minorities declaring that they shall be no ways liable for ______? of any kind nor in solidum for one another but each of them for their own actual intromissions allenarly and _____? with the not delivery hereof and declare these present valid tho’ found lying by me or in the custody of any third person at the time of my decease consenting To the...

- first word looks like emyseris
(this is beginning to sound like a party game... )
- second word looks like ?poned, and the obvious choice would be something like disponed butI don't think it is....

Best wishes
Lesley

[AndrewP]

Hi Lesley,

I think the first word is omissions. The second one looks like it could well be disponed.

All the best,

AndrewP

[DavidWW]

OK. Other tricky bit.
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-964

...or survivor of them to be Tutors & Curators to my children under age at my decease during their pupillarity & minorities declaring that they shall be no ways liable for ______? of any kind nor in solidum for one another but each of them for their own actual intromissions allenarly and _____? with the not delivery hereof and declare these present valid tho’ found lying by me or in the custody of any third person at the time of my decease consenting To the...

- first word looks like emyseris
(this is beginning to sound like a party game... )
- second word looks like ?poned, and the obvious choice would be something like disponed butI don't think it is....

Best wishes
Lesley

The first one I give up on, the second one is probably a synonym of jointly as allenarly, in a legal sense, means "only, solely, exclusively". .......

An email to NAS occurs to me as the next step, as one of their experts will take about 0.5 seconds to determine the words, and they'll be suitably impressed by the fact that you have correctly interpreted everything else, - just, first, somewhere on the NAS site, there's a listing of standard vocabulary in such documents, - have you checked it out?

David

[LesleyB]

Hi Andrew & David
Again. many thanks. Omissions looks right!

The other one...hummm. There is a squiggle before what looks like "dispone" which is a nuisance... (I'm sure that last letter is an "e" on looking again - see "declare" in the line below, infact based on that, the mystery word now seems to end "re" as well...) I'm still not sure on that one at all.

I've had a look on NAS site and "Scottish Handwriting", although the hands shown there are a lot earlier, sometimes there is a word which just jumps out at you!

I'm sure someone at NAS could probably help... but, er...I did have one of the archivists looking at it the other day and he was hugely helpful but was stuck too...!! You guys are doing waayy better so far!!

Best wishes
Lesley

[DavidWW]

.....much snipped .....

I'm sure someone at NAS could probably help... but, er...I did have one of the archivists looking at it the other day and he was hugely helpful but was stuck too...!! You guys are doing waayy better so far!!

Best wishes
Lesley

Ehhhhh ??!!

David