OPRs Scotlands People.....

[kimmac61]

Hi

Why would a OPR birth record from Scotlands People be listed twice with almost the same details? Could it be that the parents weren't married?
Any help would be appreciated

Kim

[paddyscar]

Welcome to TalkingScot, Kim.

I don't think it's a case of each parent registering the birth because they weren't married, but rather the birth and baptism records for an individual. It's not always the case, and I think it would depend on what records have survived.

Hope this helps.

Frances

[JustJean]

Hi Kim

Well....if you could tell us a wee bit more it might help too. Just what exactly are the differences, however small, between the two entries?

Best wishes....and welcome!
Jean

[kimmac61]

Hi Jean

Here is a part of the OPR record that have different numbers:

Parents Names/Frame No.
James Mc Nair/ Cathrine Barclay FRCH2
James Mc Nair/ Catherine Barclay FR2001

Thanks
Kim

[AndrewP]

Hi Kim,

A search for the birth of Robert McNair in 1820 produces 5 results. The pair that you quote, another pair which appear to be the same, and one single result. I would fairly certain that this is three results, two of them indexed twice. This could be part of the re-indexing of the OPRs that has been required for the introduction of the OPR images hopefully soon. It may become more apparent when these images come online. Watch that space...

All the best,

AndrewP

[DavidWW]

Hi Jean

Here is a part of the OPR record that have different numbers:

Parents Names/Frame No.
James Mc Nair/ Cathrine Barclay FRCH2
James Mc Nair/ Catherine Barclay FR2001

Thanks
Kim

The "FR2001" reference relates to an entry in the Old Parish Register, while the "FRCH2" reference relates to a different but related record in the minutes of the kirk session.

David

[apanderson]

Hi Kim,

If you ever get a chance to see the film of the Birth/Baptism entry, an almost surefire way of telling if the parents were married is ........

If the entry says "Child Lawful" of X & Y, this means that the parents were married and both the mother & the father's name will usually appear.

If the entry says "Child Natural" of Y, (Y being the mother's name) this means that the child was most likely illegitimate. On the odd occasion I've seen the father's name on the entry too, so the key words are 'Lawful' or 'Natural'.

David mentioned an OPR record for the same couple in the Kirk Session - again, if you ever get a chance to view these, it might well all tie in.

I'm obviously guessing here, but if your couple weren't married when they had a child, the Kirk Session Records might tell you their story. I had a very similar circumstance where in Fintry OPR's, a young lady had an illegitimate child who was entered in the Birth/Baptism records as her 'natural' child, then on reading the Kirk Sessions, I discovered that she subsequently named the father and the two of them went through a right old tellng-off for their "sins of fornication".

Anne

[kimmac61]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your replies to my query. Since sending my last email have received the OPR Birth Record for my query in the post. But alas it is not made things any clearer. The OPR is in a kind of shorthand. Maybe someone can help my decipher it? This is what the record looks like :

Mc Nair Robert N? S? Of Jas. Mc Nair & Catherine Barclay

Could this mean Natural Son of ??? (illegitimate?)

Comparing this to another record on the page that goes :

Flemming Elizabeth D.(daughter)? L.(Legal/Lawful)? Of Andrew Flemming & Annie Munro

It was also suggested that a look at the Kirk Session for this parish might be helpful. How do i do this, not being in Scotland myself?

Thanks
Regards
Kim

[DavidWW]

......snipped..........
Mc Nair Robert N? S? Of Jas. Mc Nair & Catherine Barclay

Could this mean Natural Son of ??? (illegitimate?)

Comparing this to another record on the page that goes :

Flemming Elizabeth D.(daughter)? L.(Legal/Lawful)? Of Andrew Flemming & Annie Munro

Hmmmmmm..... had the words been "...Jas McNair and his wife Catherine Barclay....." that would have been unambiguous, but the form used leaves things open. What's the form of words on the other 10 or more records on the same page?

It was also suggested that a look at the Kirk Session for this parish might be helpful. How do i do this, not being in Scotland myself?

Thanks
Regards
Kim

Email NAS and ask if they are able to supply photocopies (at a price!) for the most likely period.

David

PS "L" most often means "Lawful"

[kimmac61]

All the other OPRS on the same page are in the form below.

Male: S(Son)? L(Lawful/Legal) Of (Parents forenames/surnames)
Female: D(Daughter)? L(Lawful/ Legal) Of (Parents forenames/surnames)

The entry i am interested in is the only one with
N (Natural)? S(Son)? of (Parents forenames/surnames)

The Kirk Sessions in this case might be the way to go.

Thanks
Kim