Looking for some advice or pointers for research. A family story suggests that my GGGGrandmother's brothers or uncles were in love with the same girl, she married one the other went away to be a soldier of fortune. He returned after making his fortune in Poland to build a house. While building the house he stayed with the brother and wife, the story goes that he got up in the middle of the night and murdered both with an axe and was hanged for this. How would I start to prove or disprove this great story? My GGGGrandmother was Margaret McFarlane she was born c1820 in Roseneath to Malcolm McFarlane and Sally Carmichael, her grandparents were John McFarlane and Christian Colquhoun. Margaret had a number of brothers, namely, John, Malcolm, Peter. Christian and John also had a number of sons - with the same names as well as George and Donald. I am sure soldiers of fortune had mostly disappeared by begining of 1800's so it is more likely to be her uncle's than brothers. Would be glad of any pointers as source of research. Thanks.
Liz
Scottish Execution.....
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emamc
- Posts: 53
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- Location: Dumbarton
Scottish Execution.....
Researching names: McQuade; Lynn; McSporran; Sweeney; Madden; Smith; McIlvaine; Burns; Burgess; McFarlane; Deignan; Barr; McMurchie: Dumbarton/Glasgow/Campbeltown/Co Tyrone, Monaghan, Down, Derry and Donegal
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karenc
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- Location: shotts
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DavidWW
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Hi Liz
Have a Google !!
Plus there's at least one book that lists all those tried, found guilty, and executed in Scotland for murder..............
That comment apart, there are excellent records held by National Archives of Scotland (NAS) relating to criminal trials in the High Court of Justiciary (often shortened to just "High Court").
Based on an index of the accused and the victim, preogressively coming on-line on the NAS index, it may be possible to identify the trial involved very quickly, - otherwise there's a card index at West Register House.
Such NAS records can be accessed at WRH, but may need a few days notice to be brought in from the storage place elsewhere in Edinburgh and made available at WRH in Charlotte Square.
The NAS trial records are minimal, - the name of the panel (the accused), the charge, the judge, maybe the jury, maybe the witnesses, and the verdict, - most often occupying no more than a couple of pages.
To access a full account of the trial you will need to look in local and, depending on the case, national newspapers, which will often have a virtually verbatim account.
That's not to say that the NAS records are of no use, - far from it, - as they may well contain the "productions", - extensive records relating to the Procurator Fiscal's investigation of the situation before it was decided that there was a case to answer, - witness statements and all that went with those !!
David
Have a Google !!
Plus there's at least one book that lists all those tried, found guilty, and executed in Scotland for murder..............
That comment apart, there are excellent records held by National Archives of Scotland (NAS) relating to criminal trials in the High Court of Justiciary (often shortened to just "High Court").
Based on an index of the accused and the victim, preogressively coming on-line on the NAS index, it may be possible to identify the trial involved very quickly, - otherwise there's a card index at West Register House.
Such NAS records can be accessed at WRH, but may need a few days notice to be brought in from the storage place elsewhere in Edinburgh and made available at WRH in Charlotte Square.
The NAS trial records are minimal, - the name of the panel (the accused), the charge, the judge, maybe the jury, maybe the witnesses, and the verdict, - most often occupying no more than a couple of pages.
To access a full account of the trial you will need to look in local and, depending on the case, national newspapers, which will often have a virtually verbatim account.
That's not to say that the NAS records are of no use, - far from it, - as they may well contain the "productions", - extensive records relating to the Procurator Fiscal's investigation of the situation before it was decided that there was a case to answer, - witness statements and all that went with those !!
David
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Falkyrn
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:04 pm
- Location: Scotland
The "Black Sheep index" at http://uk.geocities.com/becky62655@btin ... t1800.html
which lists a great number of executions lists only 2 McFarlanes,Thomas M'farlane in 1820 (who was reprieved after allegedly taking part in the 1820 uprising and an attempted seizure of the Carron iron Works) and Hans M'farlane who in 1853 along with helen Blackwood was found guilty of murder.
The "soldiers of Fortune" idea may not have died out as Scottish soldiers fought abroad in a great number of wars much later than the early 1800's
which lists a great number of executions lists only 2 McFarlanes,Thomas M'farlane in 1820 (who was reprieved after allegedly taking part in the 1820 uprising and an attempted seizure of the Carron iron Works) and Hans M'farlane who in 1853 along with helen Blackwood was found guilty of murder.
The "soldiers of Fortune" idea may not have died out as Scottish soldiers fought abroad in a great number of wars much later than the early 1800's
~RJ Paton~
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AnneM
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- Location: Aberdeenshire
Hi Liz
If you ever bump into a Donald McFarlane who was married to a Margaret Strathern and had several children in Roseneath in the late C18 early C19 we would have a connection.
Anne
If you ever bump into a Donald McFarlane who was married to a Margaret Strathern and had several children in Roseneath in the late C18 early C19 we would have a connection.
Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
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DavidWW
- Posts: 5057
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There's a school of thought that many, even most, of those arrested were government agents provocateurs .................Falkyrn wrote:.....snipped.........which lists a great number of executions lists only 2 McFarlanes,Thomas M'farlane in 1820 (who was reprieved after allegedly taking part in the 1820 uprising and an attempted seizure of the Carron iron Works) . ....snipped...........
David
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emamc
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- Location: Dumbarton
Scottish Execution
Hi Anne
Yes - I have come across Donald he is the son of John and Christian, born on 02.12.1765 and married Margaret Strathern in 1794. My connection is Malcolm John and Christian's son who was born on 26.03.1780 and married Sally Carmichael. What connection are you to Donald. This is really amazing, until very recently I had no knowledge of my McFarlane's and have only just got a copy of John and Christian's marriage on the 10th February, 1759. We should swap notes and see what we have in common. Have you got any further back than Dugald McFarlane and Janet Niven, John's parents? Did you know anything of this story?
Liz
Yes - I have come across Donald he is the son of John and Christian, born on 02.12.1765 and married Margaret Strathern in 1794. My connection is Malcolm John and Christian's son who was born on 26.03.1780 and married Sally Carmichael. What connection are you to Donald. This is really amazing, until very recently I had no knowledge of my McFarlane's and have only just got a copy of John and Christian's marriage on the 10th February, 1759. We should swap notes and see what we have in common. Have you got any further back than Dugald McFarlane and Janet Niven, John's parents? Did you know anything of this story?
Liz
Researching names: McQuade; Lynn; McSporran; Sweeney; Madden; Smith; McIlvaine; Burns; Burgess; McFarlane; Deignan; Barr; McMurchie: Dumbarton/Glasgow/Campbeltown/Co Tyrone, Monaghan, Down, Derry and Donegal
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AnneM
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Hi Liz
Donald was my 3x great grandfather. I had only claimed as far back as him as the only evidence that I had that the Donald that married Margaret Strathern was the son of John and Christian was a submitted entry on the IGI. I'd be delighted to know that you have something better as it would be great to have another relative on TS. I had not heard of the story of the murder but in the past I found the truth about about a family 'tale' from my husband's family that one of his ancestors was murdered from a chap whom specialises in that kind of thing in England. I'll find his website and see if he does Scotland as well and if so will PM you his details.
I knew nothing about this family at all. They were ancestors of my mother's mother's mother.
Hope you have luck finding out more.
Anne
Donald was my 3x great grandfather. I had only claimed as far back as him as the only evidence that I had that the Donald that married Margaret Strathern was the son of John and Christian was a submitted entry on the IGI. I'd be delighted to know that you have something better as it would be great to have another relative on TS. I had not heard of the story of the murder but in the past I found the truth about about a family 'tale' from my husband's family that one of his ancestors was murdered from a chap whom specialises in that kind of thing in England. I'll find his website and see if he does Scotland as well and if so will PM you his details.
I knew nothing about this family at all. They were ancestors of my mother's mother's mother.
Hope you have luck finding out more.
Anne
Anne
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
Researching M(a)cKenzie, McCammond, McLachlan, Kerr, Assur, Renton, Redpath, Ferguson, Shedden, Also Oswald, Le/assels/Lascelles, Bonning just for starters
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emamc
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:53 pm
- Location: Dumbarton
Scottish Execution
Hi Anne
I too saw the submitted IGI entry, but like you was unsure. Thankfully our local library has an excellent family history section, and I am working my way through the Roseneath births - records start around 1722. I have found most of Dugald and Janet's children that are listed on the IGI, most of them were born in Glen Douglas and Knockderry, one or two were born in Greenock. The Librarian said that it was fairly common for the fishermen who came from Roseneath to move back and forward to Greenock. I have John and Christian's marriage in Luss it does not give a lot of information. They were servants and worked for the same man, it gives his name. I have found all their children that are listed on the IGI. They seem to have lived in a small hamlet called Meikle Rahane for a long time as both John and Malcolm's children were all born there, so that really helps. The records give the father and mothers names, so it is quite easy to trace. I am hoping to start the marriage records within the next 2 weeks, but I don't know how well I can tie things together. It maybe easier if they all stayed at Meikle Rahane, but there is a lot of John's, Malcolm's and Duncan's. It looks like most of the McFarlane's who lived in Roseneath were related in one way or another. Margaret McFarlane is my 3xG Grandmother, her parents names on her death certificate are Malcolm McFarlane and Sarah Carmichael. According to the IGI Malcolm's parents were John McFarlane and Christian Colquhoun, and I have a baptism notice for a Maloclm McFarlane born to both those parents, but I have not tied it together with Malcolm and Sarah's marriage notice. Hopefully it will tell me something.
The strange thing is that Margaret married a John Smith from County Down in Dumbarton in St Patrick's Chapel in 1833, and her brother John is named as a witness. So initally I assumed that these McFarlane's were Catholic, but now that I find most of Malcolm and Sarah's children listed on the Church of Scotland baptisms I am not so sure. Sarah/Sally can be an Irish name - and I do not see the Church allowing a witness to stand who was not a Catholic so I will have to do more digging. I will let you know what I find out. Keep in touch.
Liz
I too saw the submitted IGI entry, but like you was unsure. Thankfully our local library has an excellent family history section, and I am working my way through the Roseneath births - records start around 1722. I have found most of Dugald and Janet's children that are listed on the IGI, most of them were born in Glen Douglas and Knockderry, one or two were born in Greenock. The Librarian said that it was fairly common for the fishermen who came from Roseneath to move back and forward to Greenock. I have John and Christian's marriage in Luss it does not give a lot of information. They were servants and worked for the same man, it gives his name. I have found all their children that are listed on the IGI. They seem to have lived in a small hamlet called Meikle Rahane for a long time as both John and Malcolm's children were all born there, so that really helps. The records give the father and mothers names, so it is quite easy to trace. I am hoping to start the marriage records within the next 2 weeks, but I don't know how well I can tie things together. It maybe easier if they all stayed at Meikle Rahane, but there is a lot of John's, Malcolm's and Duncan's. It looks like most of the McFarlane's who lived in Roseneath were related in one way or another. Margaret McFarlane is my 3xG Grandmother, her parents names on her death certificate are Malcolm McFarlane and Sarah Carmichael. According to the IGI Malcolm's parents were John McFarlane and Christian Colquhoun, and I have a baptism notice for a Maloclm McFarlane born to both those parents, but I have not tied it together with Malcolm and Sarah's marriage notice. Hopefully it will tell me something.
The strange thing is that Margaret married a John Smith from County Down in Dumbarton in St Patrick's Chapel in 1833, and her brother John is named as a witness. So initally I assumed that these McFarlane's were Catholic, but now that I find most of Malcolm and Sarah's children listed on the Church of Scotland baptisms I am not so sure. Sarah/Sally can be an Irish name - and I do not see the Church allowing a witness to stand who was not a Catholic so I will have to do more digging. I will let you know what I find out. Keep in touch.
Liz
Researching names: McQuade; Lynn; McSporran; Sweeney; Madden; Smith; McIlvaine; Burns; Burgess; McFarlane; Deignan; Barr; McMurchie: Dumbarton/Glasgow/Campbeltown/Co Tyrone, Monaghan, Down, Derry and Donegal
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LesleyB
- Posts: 8184
- Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:18 am
- Location: Scotland
Hi Liz & Anne
I have a bunch of folk from Roseneath - McCunns and McKenzies from Barbour & Cursnoch (Cove, Kilcreggan area), one of whom married a McFarlane, not one you have listed so far but probably fits in somewhere! Margaret McKenzie. m in 1850, Roseneath, James McFarlane son of John and Ann [McIntyre] You probably know of this site already for Old Roseneath Cemetery
http://members.madasafish.com/~fairenough/index.html
..but if not it can be very helpful.
Best wishes
Lesley
I have a bunch of folk from Roseneath - McCunns and McKenzies from Barbour & Cursnoch (Cove, Kilcreggan area), one of whom married a McFarlane, not one you have listed so far but probably fits in somewhere! Margaret McKenzie. m in 1850, Roseneath, James McFarlane son of John and Ann [McIntyre] You probably know of this site already for Old Roseneath Cemetery
http://members.madasafish.com/~fairenough/index.html
..but if not it can be very helpful.
Best wishes
Lesley