1851/61 Census - Lanark .....

Rab · Post by **Rab** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:32 pm

No problem, thanks for the correction. Either way it solves that problem I had. I had a Janet, aged 8, in the 1841 census and the age did not tie up with her death certificate. This explains alot.

Rab · Post by **Rab** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:52 pm

I've now managed to locate to the new member of my family tree. Mary Marr, daughter of Robert and Marion, married a man named Andrew McCorkindale. I've found the marriage, census data, etx. on SP and Ancestry. Thanks again for the info- and the new branch.

Rab · Post by **Rab** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:00 pm

Sorry for bringing this old post of mine back but it's related to a query I have. I made a lookup request before the 1851 and 1861 censuses were online. Jack kindly found and posted the information.

Now that that images are online I though I might as well get them for my records. I found them all no problem except for the following one (which is definitely the correct couple Jack found).

Jack wrote:1851 cens 622 (578) Ed 6 p 22 (Anderston)
58 Clyde St.
Robert MARR, head, marr, 23, j/man brassfounder, b Glasgow, LKS
Maria MARR, wife, 18, ----------- b Glasgow, LKS [name as Maria]

I can only find 5 references to Robert Marr in Lanark and none of these are the correct one. I can find no references to Maria Marr and only one Marion Marr in Lanark, again no match.

Does anyone know why this would be?

isobelc · Post by **isobelc** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:15 pm

Hi Rab,

Try under MORR. There is an 18 year old Maria and a 23 year old Robert in Barony.

Isobel

Rab · Post by **Rab** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:10 pm

isobelc wrote:Hi Rab,

Try under MORR. There is an 18 year old Maria and a 23 year old Robert in Barony.

Isobel

Thanks Isobel, that's the one. You've just saved me having to replaster the wall again.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:39 am

Hi Rab,
Glad to hear Isobel put you on the right track, and so no new plastering needed!
But out of curiosity could you please say what the GROS data No. is for Robert & Maria in the 1851 census.
I'm sure it will be different from what i've given; it's just to see what SP/GROS are using, and to compare them with what i have.
Thanks,
Jack

Rab · Post by **Rab** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:39 pm

Hi Jack,

Yes I got there in the end. After failing to find quite a few rellies I thought SP had just omitted this one but I was wrong.

Here is the reference, hopfully this is the correct one:

MARR, Robert and Marion Census 1851 (622-00 049-00 022)

Thanks

Rab

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:38 pm

Hi Rab,
Thanks, and as i suspected a rather different number for the same entry!
--
1851 622 (578) Ed 6 p 22 [from CD index]
1851 622-00 049-00 022 [from SP]
--
Andrew P gave us an excellent explanation on the 3 known numbering systems, please see -

viewtopic.php?p=28060&highlight=#28060

But it would now seem that Andrew has discovered a 4th - the "SP" [for want of a better name!]
which is, as i've already said, no use to anyone who just needs the number from SP to check the original 1851 page on film.
I wonder if SP has a conversion table available...

Jack

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:40 pm

Jack wrote:But it would now seem that Andrew has discovered a 4th - the "SP" [for want of a better name!]
which is, as i've already said, no use to anyone who just needs the number from SP to check the original 1851 page on film.
I wonder if SP has a conversion table available...
Jack

On ScotlandsPeople, there is the facility to see the "header pages" for free, once you have paid to see a page within that enumeration district. The header pages give you the "actual" enumeration district number, and hopefully the parish (in the case of 1851) or registration district (1861 onwards) name.

In the example quoted above, I would expect to see something like Barony (Anderston) ED 6 on the image of the front cover of that enumeration book. The next page should describe the street(s) or places covered in that book. Beyond that are the statistical pages - summaries of some of the data in the census pages.

In parishes where there is more than one series of enumeration districts, the front cover and the description page can often sort out which series of enumeration districts that is you are looking at. Typically the more than one series is a "burgh" series and a "parish" series; burgh for the town and parish for the rural area surrounding the town wthin that parish. Or in about 60 of the parishes in the 1851 census, the parish was split across a county boundary. The description page should indicate which county you are looking at. For two parishes, they are split across boundaries into three counties - Arngask (Perthshire, Fife and Kinross-shire) and Logie (Perthshire, Stirlingshire and Clackmannanshire) [not to be confused with the other Logie parishes elsewhere in Scotland]. The enumeration districts start at ED1 in each parish/county unit. So ScotlandsPeople had their work cut out to differentiate between them in their indexing.

On that basis, for the 1851 census, you cannot take the number in the middle of the GROS data to mean the "actual" enumeration district (as seems to work for the 1861 onwards censuses, where the original district numbering was more logical). It should be regarded as an index number to take you to the right image and then you should check the header page to see the actual enumeration district number.

We cannot blame GROS or SP for the methods and numbering system of the 1851 census as it was taken before the existence of GROS, which was created for the start of civil registration in 1855. GROS's and SP's task has been to make the 1851 census fit into a computer-logical indexing system that is comparable to the registration district system that GROS operates by. Each of the earlier indexing systems for the 1851 census had anomalies, so I guess GROS an SP had no choice but to create a new index to bring in all of the EDs in a computer-logical manner.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:46 pm

Hi Andrew,
I can understand why SP/GROS would've had to create their own numbering system for the rather messy 1851,
and i know it doesn't affect anyone who is downloading an image.
I don't think they had much of a choice in the matter.

For the later censuses (1861/1871) i've been downloading names only (no images).
It was useful, say, to get a list of all the Smiths in the Paisley 1861 census,
and cross-check forenames to numbers to see who was all possibly together as a family.
Then armed with these numbers i could look at the original pages without scrolling through an entire film roll.

But alas! for 1851 i'm unable to do this,

though i do know i'm very fortunate in that i have The Mitchell Library practically "on my doorstep"

Thanks,
Jack

TalkingScot.com

1851/61 Census - Lanark .....

Re: Censuses 1851 & 1861

Marr

Re: Marr

Re: Marr

Re: Marr