As he went in & as he came out - where?

[carolineasb]

Hi,

I was thinking the same as Russell, but, in the second photo, I actually thought that it might possibly be acacia in his left lapel and he may have been in a Masonic Order. The fact that the photos are labelled "As he went in" & " As he came out" adds to that. There are many links on the net regarding Acacia and the Masonic Order.

Caroline

[Hibee]

Had another look, and am even more convinced these are two different people.

The beard line from the edge of the mouth to the ear is different (and neither seems partly shaved). The nose sizes and shapes are different. One has large eyes, and one has small. One has dark shaded iris and one light. And, as previously mentioned, the earlobe lines differ.

Hibee

[carolineasb]

PS I also meant to say that I didn't think they were the same person either. I also wondered if finding out more about the photographer's life/history might give an indication about a possible club/association/order? Paisley Museum or Library may hold information?

Caroline

[arthurk]

Thanks for the further thoughts. I see what you mean about acacia, so I've been investigating masons and friendly societies etc. I would guess any of these may be possible, but I have no other family information which corroborates this - although as I said, there is a photo of one other person in the album with leaves in his lapel. However, none of the many other photos from this family appears to show any masonic or other regalia.

One thing I did find mention of was the Paisley Philosophical Institution, and I noticed that the Coats family were quite heavily involved in this. The reason I mention this is that one of the very few named photos in the album is of Thomas Coats, but I don't think he was related - I'd assumed a business contact or maybe just because he was so prominent locally.

George McKenzie seems to have been a fairly prominent photographer in Paisley from the 1850s, and there are dozens of photos from his studios from then onwards in this collection, so I don't think there would necessarily have been any special significance in his having taken the Out photo.

Anyway, thanks again for all the suggestions, and I'll keep thinking.

Arthur

[Currie]

I’ll vote for him being the same fellow. He’s about 15 years older, going grey, put on weight, hair is longer, a bit disheveled, and he’s lost a lot on top, and he’s taken to wearing funny hats. He has probably just escaped from the legal profession, or something similar, and no longer has to look like one of them.

Presumably the thing in his lapel would be called a sprig. Searching in the Scottish 19th Century BL Newspapers for sprig of acacia brings up 17 hits between 1873 and 1900, and they are all reports of Freemasons dropping them into graves at Masonic funerals.

Cartes de visite were gradually replaced by Cabinet photos, probably because bigger is better. If the other Cartes in the album can be dated to a certain period then it’s more than likely these photos would be of the same period.

Just guessing,
Alan

[paddyscar]

I think we can probably discount is that he was in and out of jail .................. this seems a most unlikely possibility, and not one that would have been celebrated in the family album (unless he was a martyr for some worthy cause??).

I know not where my mind was when I wrote this one!

Sorry ...

Frances

[BarJoh]

Good to see photos posted, and I enjoyed reading the various opinions.
I have a whole batch of (English) family photographs that are not identified and take this as a lesson to put names together with faces, for the benefit of future family genealogists.

[annebarr]

Hi Arthur,

My input would be for you to post the other photo of the man with the different leaf on his lapel to see if anyone can identify an order?
Someone may not have seen the one in your post but may recognise the other?

Just a thought to try and identify what/where.

It looks to me to be the same person but because of age difference, balding, different positioning, distance pic taken from etc. could look different to others.

2nd photo seems to have been taken after 1st photographer ceased business or would they not have used the same one?

I also doubt he would come out of a jail with long hair - would it not have been shaved

Annie

[arthurk]

Hi Arthur,

My input would be for you to post the other photo of the man with the different leaf on his lapel to see if anyone can identify an order?
Someone may not have seen the one in your post but may recognise the other?

Just a thought to try and identify what/where.

Annie

Good idea - here it is.

maple.jpg

I've no idea who this one is, or exactly when it was taken - only that it was in the same album as the In/Out photos. If it helps, it's a cabinet print with rounded corners (which didn't quite fit in the portable scanner).

Arthur

[annebarr]

Hi Arthur,

You could also try:

http://www.rootschat.com/

They have a forum for restoration & dating and there are a lot of members & I'm sure you will find help.

I think you would be better to put (Help to date pics & identify badges) or similar if you post on rootschat & include both pics.

I think you have to join but it's free & very helpful!

Annie.