Can some kind soul please have a look at this 1861 image which I've posted to the gallery (note the confidence with which I say this)
http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1168
I won't muddy the waters with Ancestry's translation, though I have to say I can't do any better. SP doesn't have Andrew listed as anything like the Ancestry version, and wildcards have not done it for me. Stumped again.
Thank you
Best wishes
Pinkshoes
Gallery URL added - AndrewP
Deciphering help please .....
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Hi Andrew - thanks for that - I've just been looking at it a few minutes ago myself, but the lightbulb hasn't gone on yet. Wee Andrew Scougal/Scongal's granny was Mary Crookston m.s. Darling (on the page before Andrew) so try as I might I can't fit Isabella or Andrew into that family. I was wondering if Isabella died and Mary Crookston took him in and just called him her grandson. No doubt that's too simple
I'm trying to find a death for Mary Crookston (Darling) without success so far and hoped I might get some kind of clue via Andrew - as you can probably tell desperation is setting in, and the clutching at straws has started
Thanks again.
Best wishes
Pinkshoes
I'm trying to find a death for Mary Crookston (Darling) without success so far and hoped I might get some kind of clue via Andrew - as you can probably tell desperation is setting in, and the clutching at straws has started
Thanks again.
Best wishes
Pinkshoes
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Scougal family
Hi Pinkshoes,
Just to add to your confusion...
I know you'll have most, probably all, of this below by now.
It would seem that Andrew & Isabella's daur was also brought as a grandchild.
By an Andrew SCOUGAL & Margaret KILGOUR.
They do have a son Andrew.
I wonder if the OPR may have more to say on the births of Andrew & Margaret?
====
Parents: ANDREW SCOUGAL & ISABELLA ORMISTON
Two children...
ANDREW SCOUGAL - Birth: 25 JUN 1848, Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
MARGARET SCOUGAL - Birth: 31 JAN 1850, Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
====
1841 census 680 Ed 5 p 11 (Cranston)
Sauchan Side.
Robert CROOKSTON, 40, miner, b MLN
Mary CROOKSTON, 35, -----------b MLN
George CROOKSTON, 13, -------b MLN
Ann CROOKSTON, 9, -------------b MLN
William CROOKSTON, 5, --------b MLN
David CROOKSTON, 2, ---------b MLN
1851 census 674 Ed 1 p 10 (Borthwick)
Dewartown.
Mary DARLING, head, Marr, 44, outdoor labourer, b Borthwick, MLN
David CROOKSTONE, son, 11, scholar/pauper, b Cranston, MLN
Janet CROOKSTONE, dair, 9, scholar, b Cranston, MLN
Andrew SCOUGAL, gr-son, 2, ------b Borthwick, MLN
1861 census 680 Ed 1 p 4 (Cranston)
13 Chesterhill.
Mary CROOKSTON, head, 54, dress maker, b Borthwick, Edin.
David CROOKSTON, son, 22, coalminer, b Cranston, Edin.
Andrew SCOUGAL, gr-son, 12, labourer, b Borthwick, Edin.
====
ANDREW SCOUGAL
MARGARET KILGOUR
Marriage: 04 DEC 1825 Newbattle, Midlothian, Scotland
Marriage: 08 DEC 1825 Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
Some children...
ANDREW SCOUGAL - Christening: 04 DEC 1825 Newbattle, Midlothian
JOHN SCOUGAL ~ 1832
MARGARET SCOUGAL - Christening: 24 FEB 1828 Borthwick, Midlothian
ALEXANDER SCOUGAL - Birth: 06 JUN 1837 Borthwick, Midlothian
1841 census 689 Ed 4 p 1 (Inveresk)
Smeaton.
Andrew SCOUGALL, 35, Ag. Lab, b MLN
Margret SCOUGALL, 40, ------------b MLN
Andrew SCOUGALL, 15, -----------b MLN
John SCOUGALL, 9, ---------------b MLN
Alexander SCOUGALL, 3, ------b MLN
1851 census 689 Ed 4 p 1 (Inveresk)
Smeaton.
Andrew SCOUGAL, head, marr, 45, farm overseer, b Cockpen, MLN
Margaret SCOUGAL, wife, marr, 56, -----------------b Newbattle, MLN
Andrew SCOUGAL, son, u/m 25, farm servant, b Newbattle, MLN
Alexander SCOUGAL, son, 13, farm labourer, b Borthwick, MLN
Margaret SCOUGAL, daur, 1, ----------------b Borthwick, MLN.....
[but shd be gr-daur? See 1861 below. Ancestry has name as Swagat...]
1861 census 689 Ed 1 p 31 (Inveresk)
Smeaton Farm Cottages.
Andrew SCOUGALL, head, 55, farm steward, b Cockpen, Edin.
Andrew SCOUGALL, son, 35, ploughman, b Newbattle, Edin.
Margret SCOUGALL, gr-daur, 11, scholar, b Borthwick, Edin.
Helen KILGOUR, niece, 24, housekeeper, b Temple, Edin.
[guessing a bit on names - Ancestry have Sebugall & Hilgour]
====
Jack
ps, red herring time...possibly an innocent victim of my imagination.
But i'm wondering who this Isabella Ormiston is?
They may be two different persons, no way to tell at present.
--
1841 census 710 Ed 3 p 7 (Humbie)
Windy Mains......... [with a William Maurow & family]
Isabella ORMISTON, 15, servant, b SCT [sic]
1851 census 683 Ed 5 p 1 (Dalkeith)
High St. South........ [with a David Jarden & family]
Isabella ORMISTON, servant, u/m 27, servant, b Cranston, MLN
--
Just to add to your confusion...
I know you'll have most, probably all, of this below by now.
It would seem that Andrew & Isabella's daur was also brought as a grandchild.
By an Andrew SCOUGAL & Margaret KILGOUR.
They do have a son Andrew.
I wonder if the OPR may have more to say on the births of Andrew & Margaret?
====
Parents: ANDREW SCOUGAL & ISABELLA ORMISTON
Two children...
ANDREW SCOUGAL - Birth: 25 JUN 1848, Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
MARGARET SCOUGAL - Birth: 31 JAN 1850, Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
====
1841 census 680 Ed 5 p 11 (Cranston)
Sauchan Side.
Robert CROOKSTON, 40, miner, b MLN
Mary CROOKSTON, 35, -----------b MLN
George CROOKSTON, 13, -------b MLN
Ann CROOKSTON, 9, -------------b MLN
William CROOKSTON, 5, --------b MLN
David CROOKSTON, 2, ---------b MLN
1851 census 674 Ed 1 p 10 (Borthwick)
Dewartown.
Mary DARLING, head, Marr, 44, outdoor labourer, b Borthwick, MLN
David CROOKSTONE, son, 11, scholar/pauper, b Cranston, MLN
Janet CROOKSTONE, dair, 9, scholar, b Cranston, MLN
Andrew SCOUGAL, gr-son, 2, ------b Borthwick, MLN
1861 census 680 Ed 1 p 4 (Cranston)
13 Chesterhill.
Mary CROOKSTON, head, 54, dress maker, b Borthwick, Edin.
David CROOKSTON, son, 22, coalminer, b Cranston, Edin.
Andrew SCOUGAL, gr-son, 12, labourer, b Borthwick, Edin.
====
ANDREW SCOUGAL
MARGARET KILGOUR
Marriage: 04 DEC 1825 Newbattle, Midlothian, Scotland
Marriage: 08 DEC 1825 Borthwick, Midlothian, Scotland
Some children...
ANDREW SCOUGAL - Christening: 04 DEC 1825 Newbattle, Midlothian
JOHN SCOUGAL ~ 1832
MARGARET SCOUGAL - Christening: 24 FEB 1828 Borthwick, Midlothian
ALEXANDER SCOUGAL - Birth: 06 JUN 1837 Borthwick, Midlothian
1841 census 689 Ed 4 p 1 (Inveresk)
Smeaton.
Andrew SCOUGALL, 35, Ag. Lab, b MLN
Margret SCOUGALL, 40, ------------b MLN
Andrew SCOUGALL, 15, -----------b MLN
John SCOUGALL, 9, ---------------b MLN
Alexander SCOUGALL, 3, ------b MLN
1851 census 689 Ed 4 p 1 (Inveresk)
Smeaton.
Andrew SCOUGAL, head, marr, 45, farm overseer, b Cockpen, MLN
Margaret SCOUGAL, wife, marr, 56, -----------------b Newbattle, MLN
Andrew SCOUGAL, son, u/m 25, farm servant, b Newbattle, MLN
Alexander SCOUGAL, son, 13, farm labourer, b Borthwick, MLN
Margaret SCOUGAL, daur, 1, ----------------b Borthwick, MLN.....
[but shd be gr-daur? See 1861 below. Ancestry has name as Swagat...]
1861 census 689 Ed 1 p 31 (Inveresk)
Smeaton Farm Cottages.
Andrew SCOUGALL, head, 55, farm steward, b Cockpen, Edin.
Andrew SCOUGALL, son, 35, ploughman, b Newbattle, Edin.
Margret SCOUGALL, gr-daur, 11, scholar, b Borthwick, Edin.
Helen KILGOUR, niece, 24, housekeeper, b Temple, Edin.
[guessing a bit on names - Ancestry have Sebugall & Hilgour]
====
Jack
ps, red herring time...possibly an innocent victim of my imagination.
But i'm wondering who this Isabella Ormiston is?
They may be two different persons, no way to tell at present.
--
1841 census 710 Ed 3 p 7 (Humbie)
Windy Mains......... [with a William Maurow & family]
Isabella ORMISTON, 15, servant, b SCT [sic]
1851 census 683 Ed 5 p 1 (Dalkeith)
High St. South........ [with a David Jarden & family]
Isabella ORMISTON, servant, u/m 27, servant, b Cranston, MLN
--
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Jack thank you so much for your efforts here. Andrew Scougal is new to me, so I haven't got anything on him other than the two census years when he's with his granny. I've no idea at this point who the Ormistons and Kilgours might be, so you've given me a good starting point.
As an aside, I noticed that David Crookston in 1861 is described as a scholar/pauper, and his mammy Mary is an outdoor labourer. I'm assuming at this stage that husband and father Robert Crookston has died between 1841 and 1851 leaving Mary to bring up the weans - would "outdoor labourer" mean anything in terms of poor relief? I have scant knowledge of the system, but bearing in mind David's description, would it mean Mary was receiving relief as oppose to being in the poorhouse, or does it just mean she was a "field worker" - (how terminology changes over the years) Or is there no way of deducing anything
Sorry about this - my request for deciphering help has turned into a bit of an inquisition
Best wishes
Pinkshoes
As an aside, I noticed that David Crookston in 1861 is described as a scholar/pauper, and his mammy Mary is an outdoor labourer. I'm assuming at this stage that husband and father Robert Crookston has died between 1841 and 1851 leaving Mary to bring up the weans - would "outdoor labourer" mean anything in terms of poor relief? I have scant knowledge of the system, but bearing in mind David's description, would it mean Mary was receiving relief as oppose to being in the poorhouse, or does it just mean she was a "field worker" - (how terminology changes over the years) Or is there no way of deducing anything
Sorry about this - my request for deciphering help has turned into a bit of an inquisition
Best wishes
Pinkshoes