SCOTTISH RESEARCH on L.A.R.F.H.C. Site .....

[sam gibson]

Hi everyone,
It is now 2.30pm [PACIFIC TIME] and I have just logged on to the Los Angeles F.H.C. web site and the SCOTTISH RESEARCH is now available. It's not much to start with, but it will grow. My apologies for all the delays, I hope people will benefit from the information I'm hoping to display there in the future.

Log on
www.lafhc.org
Click on SITE INDEX on the left hand side and scroll down to SCOTTISH RESEARCH.

Good Luck everyone

SAN GIBSON
L.A.F.H.C.

[CatrionaL]

Hi Sam

Hope you've made encourageing progress with your project in the last year

Best wishes

Catriona

[sam gibson]

Hi Catriona.

Thanks for the help.
Got logged on no problem today.

SAM

[joette]

I'm so jealous what a lovely location & what a beautiful Temple & so big.
We stayed with friends who live in Culver City not too far from the Temple & were privileged to visit.I would have been in the FHC if I had known about it.

[sam gibson]

Good Morning Joette.
Thanks for the e-mail.
I'm sorry you didn't visit either. Outside of Salt Lake, we probably have the next largest collection of Scottish Records in the U.S. We now have a designated Scottish Section in the Film Room and are currently the only Family History Centre in the World to have any of the 1901 Scottish Census, which we have been buying directly from GROS, since Salt Lake discontinued the purchase of any more films from overseas sources. I've been working to consolidate all the Scottish Research Records and Information from Published, Filmed, Computer, etc. into a single source, that currently fills 13 Binders. I'm currently building an inventory of all Scottish Non-Conformist Churches that existed and which records, if any, have survived. I was told many years ago, by people supposedly in the know, that the subject of Non-Conformist Church records was of minor importance, because little or nothing was known for sure. This also includes supposed experts at the Main Library in Salt Lake. I acquired a lot of material from the British Research Unit at the Library and found a lot of the information flawed or incorrect from what I'm finding now. To date, my Inventory consists of 2,367 of these churches and I'm still working my way through the Reportories. Some of the Reportory records themselves are in poor condition and some unreadable, some appear to missing and there is no accounting of some of the CH3 numbers. If I believe some of the sources I've been working from, then the Reportories themselves maybe missing around 200 church accountings. I'm also trying to get many of the Films from Salt Lake that contain a lot of these records, I have all the Microfiche, about 106 sets.

If you're ever in L.A., stop by and say hello.

SAM

[joette]

I sure will & I would love to see the facilities.
May I ask where your Gibson's come from? A few Gibsons in mine(both sides of the tree.) I can only think of the one who married onto one of my McKimmies.Oh yes & my Grandpa's sister Ellen Scott married a James Gibson in Portobello(well they married in Penicuik but lived in Portobello)
Any of the Non-Conformist in the Perthshire area?I can find no trace of Birth/Marriage for a number of mine & even when they moved they didn't have the children christened so you never know.
The Family History Library in SLC is amazing although I did not make much use of it when I lived in Utah! Less interested in FH then.
Your collection sounds amazing & sometimes we have to go with what we are inspired with & not what the experts are telling us.Not that I am not saying you are not an expert.
Do you have recent California records?I have family who moved to San Fransisco area 1920's & the last trace we have of them ison the 1930 Census.

[sam gibson]

Hi Joette.

A lot of questions, I'll see if I can answer them in order as best I can.

My Gibsons are from Ballynahinch in County Down. Moved to Whitburn in the mid 1800's, lived for a bit in Airdrie and Slamannan and then on to Shotts, my home town.

As to the Non-Conformist Churches, they were all over the place. The first part of the Project was published by the local British Isles Family History Society USA in their bi-annual Journal last year, many of the local Family History Societies over there are on the mailing list and you might be able to find a copy available for viewing through one of them.

I had limited myself to finding churches that had survivable records pertaining to Birth, Marriage and Death, where the CH3 Reportory indicated Registers for these events had been kept and were available in Edinburgh or at the loca; Archives througout the Country. I also referenced records which had been filmed by the LDS Church. That Project constituted 921 Churches.

Having completed that I realised that there were many other Non-Conformist Churches that had survivable reords, although not pertaining to the above subjects, never the less, could be of use to someone. These were usually Minutes and I found out in my research that in some cases, some of the above events were included in the minutes, although not actually specified in the Reportories.

There was also those Non-Conformist Churches that may not have had any survivable records. At least knowing where these Churches had been located, in what Parishes, would at least give the researcher an idea of how spread out these churches had been. As I had mentioned in my previous e-mail, I had obtained quite a bit of material from Salt Lake covering this subject and that was a major reference in putting the next part of the Project together. However, in going through the CH3 Reportory piece by piece, I discovered many omissions and quite a number of mistakes. I had put together the first part of the this advanced Project covering Shetland through Bute and I thought that was ready before I discovered many of the omissions. That part is awaiting publishing. I'm in two minds whether to let that go for now and make note of the omissions in Part II, which I am hurriedly revising at the moment, will follow on from Renfrew through Wigtown. Part I is already at the Library of Congress and I may just let it go as is. Even with the current mistakes and omissions, it gives a very good overview of the Churches in each Parish in the Counties I mentioned.

The biggest battle in doing this Project was to try and show where the Churches changed names and affiliatons to the different denominations and to try and indicate when these Churches might have existed, where no records had ever survived or had been kept. What I have now will be of help to a lot of people, mistakes and all. I could refine it over and over and still never get it 100% accurate. The state of the church and religion in Scotland over the years was just crazy and you could never make sense of any of it.

The CH3 Reportory I'm working from just now shows 1375 sets of records. Some of the material I got from Salt Lake indicates Reportory numbering as high as CH3/ 1550 for Paisley, RENFREW. There is no reference as to where Salt Lake got their information, but I have a few dozen churches listed beyond the CH3/ 1375 that the Reportory indicates.

As to the question of me being an expert.
I hate being called an expert. Anyone who calls themselves an expert should be taken outside and shot with their own words.
So many experts, it turns out, can be surprised by wee tidbits they never knew anything about. There is no subject that can ever be entirely learned 100%. There are always new things to find out as I can testify to in all the years I've been working at the Los Angeles Centre. Whenever I'm invited to give a talk to a group or society around Southern California I make it very cear I'm no expert. I'm knowlegable in my subject, but no expert. Some friends and associates think it funny to introduce me as being an expert just to see my reaction.

On California Records. The State Indexes for Births, Marriages, Divorces, Deaths, etc. are available, many through Ancestry.com. Many States pulled their Indexes from the Internet when it was discovered people were using these for illegal purposes. The most common misuse was to obtain State Driver Licences and I.D.'s by illegal alliens and the like. Some of Californias Marriage Indexes are available on independent sites. peope having transcribed the records and such. A search of the Internet should indicate what is available. I know I've used the California Birth Indexes up to about 2002 through Ancesty.com.

I hope this has been of some help to you.

SAM

[DavidWW]

Hi Sam

I have it good authority that the Salt Lake City library has two loose leaf folders at the central desk on the British Isles floor that has a listing of every set of Scottish non-conformist records of which they are aware.

Has that come about through a separate but parallel project to yours, or is there a link?

Orraverybest

David

PS I really like your comments on "expert"

[joette]

Wow now I am totally impressed.What a labour of love-I mean that in it's fullest sense as you must love what you do & the people you are trying to find.
I agree that Church & religion in Scotland is a mishmash but not boring!
I have Covenanters,Free Church,Episcopalians,Plymouth Brethren,Roman Catholic,Latter-Day-Saints & Muslims within my own family tree.With the odd Prebst.& Baptist thrown in for good measure.
My young nephew Fraser is about to serve a LDS Mission in Malaga,Spain& as part of his "requirements" he had to produce a four generation chart.He was very impressed when I asked him if he wanted eight instead! He is the only "young" one interested in Family History & has been to NRH with me.Although I think I "scunnered" him by having him plow through much of the 1841 Census for Perthshire.
Thanks for all the info much food for thought & pondering & maybe a bit of prayer too!!

[sam gibson]

Hi Dave,
Salt Lake actually has 5 Folders on the subject of the Churches: Ch of Scotland and Non-Conformists, in each Parish.
The Project was put together by Barbara Baker, it was this Project that I acquired for our collection at L.A.
She was reluctant in the begining to share it, citing that it was still a work in progress. I, in turn sent her a copy of my Project, to show what I was endeavouring to do for researchers and help convince her to share her work outside Salt Lake. Along with Los Angeles, McLean, Virginia, is the only other FHC with a copy of theis Project. In part, because their Director, Linda Jonas, was formerly at L.A. and lead the British Isles Family History Society and is an authority on British Research.

I am now finding, as I refine the information on my own Non-Conformist Project, that Barbara has a lot of errors and omissions in her own Project. In spite of this, I wouldn't have got as far as I have without all the work she has done to pave the way for mine. My own isn't going to be perfect, just as I've improved on Barbaras work, I'm sure someone in the future, will take my Project and refine it a bit more.

SAM