Hooray for the 1901 Census but where is my G-Grandmother

[rjpaton]

Annette

Thanks for all this info. When you said there is a matching entry for Susan's birth in SP, did you actually view it? When I search for su phil* between 1878 & 1890 in Lanarkshire I get 4 hits and all have second names as follows:
1 1885 PHILIP SUSAN MOIR F BLACKFRIARS GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/05 1161 VIEW (PAID) ORDER
11 1881 PHILLIPS SUSAN FERRIE F KELVIN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/09 0307 VIEW (PAID) ORDER
12 1880 PHILLIPS SUSAN MOFFAT F CAMBUSNETHAN /LANARK 628/00 0598 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
13 1881 PHILLIPS SUSANNA ROSS F TRADESTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/13 0112 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
I checked 2 of them but gave up before I wasted more credits as they don't look very likely. Is it one of them? I did find the brother Hugh in 1875 and he was illegitimate (but no father) so this does look promising. Also, I am not very familiar with poorhouse records. How does one go about accessing them? On Hugh's birth record Susan is marked as 'Pauper formerly a Wollen Millworker..' (Its one of those which is a bit hard to read) so the poorhouse does look very much on the cards.

Thanks
Robert

[nelmit]

I'm so sorry Robert I didn't look at the entry (no credits) and now I've checked again the one in 1883 was not born at Glasgow. I wouldn't look at the others for the moment. I think the poorhouse records should be your next step as they sometimes mention father's names of illegitimate children and could hopefully prove if this was your family or not. I did see a Hughie Philips age 4 boarding with a family at Neilston in 1881 and wondered if this was Susan's son boarded out after a poorhouse application.

TS are having a Tombola to raise funds to help maintain this site. There are some great prizes including Mitchell Library look ups which is where the poorhouse applications are held. You might get lucky!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15113

Regards,
Annette

[rjpaton]

Thanks Annette. I've got my tombola tickets - here's hoping. Its a very good cause - I have had heaps of help from this site, thanks all.

BTW, I found the death record for Susan Phillips in April 1911 in Craiglockhart poorhouse, Edinburgh, age 72. She was listed as a pedlar. It gave her mother as Susan Barr. The informant was Junes H Smith, Asst Governor - not a member of the family (I believe Susan jnr was in Edinburgh in 1911 as son Hugh was born there in 1908). I was just wondering how the asst governor would know the Maiden Name of Susan's mother without being told by a member of the family? Would this have been in the poorhouse application or relayed through a member fo the family?


Thanks
Robert

[AnneM]

I was so pleased when I realised belatedly that the 1901 census was up. However I've searched diligently and failed to find my great great grandparents John and Annie (Alla/en) Young and any of their children (except one daughter who was already married at that time and out of the house). They should most definitely be in or around Belfast. John was a ship's carpenter there. Given that my great grandparents John and Jeanie Kerr and their one year old daughter (Isa)bella are also noticeably absent from the 1901 in Scotland, where they should be I was also hopeful that they'd be with her family in Belfast but again no sign. I am totally and utterly gutted as I have very little information about Annie. I don't know whether she was born in Scotland or Ireland. John was born in Scotland. She is dead by 1911 but I believe she did not die until around 1910. My great grandmother born 1876 was their eldest surviving child and I know they had a son John, a daughter Barbara and another daughter Eveline (not to mention Mary whom I have located). None of these can I see anywhere. They must have been in hiding.

Anne

[AnneM]

Well blow me down if my lot were not in Scotland all the time, too. Five years later I find this out....... They are in Govan, where else!!?

Anne

[LesleyB]

Hi Anne
Great you found them at last.
I've had similar problems with some of my Irish lot...often not quite where you might expect them to be, with quite a few examples of coming and going back and forwards across the water. I'm sure they only did it to make life more interesting for us.....

Best wishes
Lesley

[AnneM]

Thanks Lesley. I was pleased to find them though it says that Annie was born in 1859 in Perth which since she was married in 1873 seems unlikely! Indeed I can't find a BC for her in Perth as she gives her father as Samuel on the marriage. Not in the statutory records nor in the OPRs for likely dates. Back to the drawing board again!

Anne

[nelmit]

Annette

On the marriage certificate of 19th June 1903 at 21 Abbotsford Place Glasgow, they are both listed as 19, both have the same residence of 24 South Wellington St Glasgow & William Milne Paton is listed as a Contractors Carter (Batchelor) and Susan Phillips Septon is listed as a China Hawker (Spinster). Is there anything there you might advise to follow up on?


Robert

Hi Robert,

You may not have won anything in the tombola but you've hit the jackpot with the poorhouse applications!!

The Susan I found on the census records is definitely your g grandmother!!

There were a few applications from the family so I'm going to just summarise them from my notes.

D HEW 17/278 page 76971
Date of Application - 2/2/1885

Susan Phillips, 114 S Wellington Street, 2 up left, door 7
Age 47 - Born Port Glasgow - RC - Single
Occupation - Dealer

Daughter of Hugh Phillips, Hawker (dead) and Susan Carr residing with applicant.

Applies for medical relief for daughter Susan - Child badly.

There was a Medical Certificate from Dr Wallace at 7 Carlton Place that stated wee Susan needed medical help and should be admitted by car. Unfortunately I couldn't make out what he answered to the question 'Nature of sickness or infirmity of dependent'. It was something like 'Takes Mesentuice'. I've googled as many variations as I can but came up with nothing.

In this application Susan snr gave Susan jnr's father's name as "John Smith", a Mason. The inspector had put heavy inverted commas around his name - I would imagine because he didn't believe her but I wonder if he was the father of wee Mary.

D Hew 17/495 page 53796
Date of Application 22/7/1902

Susan Phillips Septon, 24 S. Wellington Street, 3 up right
Age 19 years 5 months, born 39 Crown Street

Illegtimate daughter of Susan Phillips with whom she lives and John Septon, dead 14 years.
Single, RC, Hawker.

Dependents - Isabella 3 weeks, illegitimate. Putative father William Paton, Van Driver.

Mother applies for Susan's removal to poorhouse.
Application withdrawn - removed to Belvedere.

You should be able to get her medical record while she was at Belvedere from the archives.

D Hew 17/513 6017
Date of Application - 23/7/1903

Susan Phillips, 24 S Wellington Street, c/o Paton
Age 64 - Single - RC
Reason - Old age and debility.

Daughter of Hugh Phillips and Susan Kerr both dead.

Family - Susan 20 years and William Paton 22 years, Van Driver. 1 child.

This one was lengthy but didn't really tell you anything new.

It 'talked' about how the 2 Susans travelled round the country through the years selling their wares mainly at Edinburgh and Glasgow. Letters passed to and fro from inspectors at Glasgow, Edinburgh and Port Glasgow till 1905. Basically each Parish was trying to get the others to pay for Susan's time at the poorhouse.

I should add that on one of the applications the inspectors had searched for a birth entry for Susan and couldn't find one.

I'm away for a cuppa but will be back with one from Susan Kerr Phillips.

Regards,
Annette

[nelmit]

Here is your g g g grandmother's application.

D HEW 17/280 page 77537
Date of Application - 19/3/85

Susan Kerr or Phillips
114 S Wellington Street, 2 up left
Age 75

Born Co. Donegal - RC - Widow - Housewife

Children -
Susan, 45 born Blackston, Port Glasgow with whom she resides. 3 illegitimate children. 1 in Belvedere at present. Has been frequently chargeable to City Parish. She hawks dishes.
Hugh, 35 born Bridgegate, a professional singer. Married 3 children in England.
John, 28 born Bridgegate, a shoemaker, idle. Married 2 children, S Wellington St.
Mary, 30 born Bridgegate, wife of James McDermid. A hawker whereabouts unknown.

Daughter of John Kerr a labourer and Mary Kerr both dead.

Husband Hugh Phillips 72 born Co Tyrone died 10 years ago in City Poorhouse.

Married in 1835 at Co Donegal.

Daughter applies for relief for her.


The inspector's report states Hugh's parents as John Phillips and Mary Caroline ?? both deceased.

I'm afraid I didn't get the chance to look at Hugh's application as I was running to get to my car before the traffic wardens as I was 5 minutes over my time!!!
The reference number is D HEW 10/3/50 page 120. You can patiently either wait till I go to The Mitchell again or you can contact the archives who will send you a copy of the application.

Regards,
Annette

[SarahND]

Hi Robert,

You may not have won anything in the tombola but you've hit the jackpot with the poorhouse applications!!

Hi Annette,
Robert DID win third prize in the Tombola So looks like he is doubly lucky and has another lookup coming

Cheers,
Sarah