U.S.-Canadian Border Crossing Records on Ancestry

[Anne H]

Hi Rae,

I found it and four Daniel Scullion's were mentioned, unfortunately, I don't think any of them would be mine. I'll keep trying.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Anne H

[Anne H]

Hi Sarah,

Many thanks for looking. You're right though, that wouldn't be the family. Here are the details I have.

Daniel Scullion dob c1859 Ireland
Sarah Scullion m.s. Murrary dob 17 Jul 1860 Scotland
Charles Scullion dob 22 Feb 1878 Scotland
Agnes Scullion dob 9 Feb 1882 Scotland
John Scullion dob 2 Jun 1883 Scotland
Mary 18 Jan 1885 Scotland

Charles Scullion's parents were actually Daniel Scullion and Annie Adair and from information recently received from a new contact, he went on to become an R.C. priest. I have him as Charles A. Scullion as a teacher on 1900 census in New Mexico, 1910 in Montana, 1920 as a priest in Montana and dying 15 Sep 1926 in Lewis & Clark, Montana Death Index. I haven't seen the DC as yet, so have no confirmation other than from my contact that there was a priest in the family...but it looks good.

I also found a death on Ancestry for a Daniel Scullon who died 16 Mar 1916 in Montana...still waiting for confirmation on that. I found a passenger list with a Dan Scullion, Engineer leaving from Glasgow & Moville arriving in Philadelphia Nov 1887...Daniel was an engine fireman and/or Railway Engineer in Scotland.

Unfortunately, I can't find anything with the entire family, although I was given another couple of census records with the wife's name being Mary (Sarah supposedly changed her name to Mary somewhere along the line), but I don't think it's the right family. I've also been given the 1930 census for a Mary Scullion employed as a ward maid in a hospital in Rhode Island...maybe, maybe not.

I'm told there's a possibility that they may have lived in Canada and then the USA.

Please don't go to any trouble looking for them...just give a shout if you happen to come across them when you're doing your own searches.

Many thanks.

Regards,
Anne H

[SarahND]

Okay, then here is an interesting couple. Daniel fits, as does daughter Mary. The place of birth of the rest of the children born in the U.S. is suggestive. I have to laugh, because I just got back from looking things up at the court house for another TS member, and here are some more relatives a mere 7 miles from where I am sitting right now... What's this with all these Scots coming to Minnesota!

1900
13 Burton Place, St Paul, Minnesota
Scullon, Daniel , head, born July 1860, age 59, married for 12 years, born in Ireland, came to U.S. in 1889 (or 1890... all scribbled out), has been here for 10 years, Engineer
--- Mary, wife, born Sept, 1867, age 33, married 12 years, has had 4 children, of which 4 are still living, born Ireland, came to U.S. in 1868, has been here for 32 years
---Mary, daughter, born Jan 1885, age 15, born in Scotland
---Gertrude, daughter, born July 1889, age 10, born Minnesota
---Margaret, daughter, born Apr 1894, age 6, born Minnesota
---James, son, born July 1897, age 2, born Montana

If this is your family, it looks like Mary is his second wife.

By 1910, this family is back in Montana. His age is w-a-y off, and the immigration years are all over the map, but...

1910
Anaconda Township, Deer Lodge County, Montana
Sculion, Daniel, head, 46, SECOND MARRIAGE, 17 years (makes more sense than what they said in 1900), born Ireland, came to U.S. in 1879, Naturalized, Engineer Locomotive
--- Mary, wife, age 43, second marriage, 17 years, had 4 children, 4 still living, born Ireland, came to U.S. in 1867 (this is put in Margaret's column, but makes no sense there)
---Margaret, daughter, 15, born Minnesota
---James, son, 12, born Montana

All the best,
Sarah

[Anne H]

Sarah wrote:

What's this with all these Scots coming to Minnesota!

...don't know, but we certainly get around, don't we? As a matter of fact, you will have a few of us Scots coming to Minnesota this coming October. My son is getting married there. They actually live in Colorado but his fiance is from Minnesota and wants to go home to get married.

Sarah, thank you for checking these Scullions...it looks different when you see it all nicely typed out. You have been busy...and fast! I actually have both of those records and dismissed them because they have everyone being born in Minnesota.

The 1900 census I have has them living at 173 Temperance St. City of St. Paul, County of Ramsey, MN. All of the names are the same but there are a few little differences here and there.

The 1910 census is the same one I have.

I also have the 1920 where they seem to be in Butte City, Silver Bow, Montana. This time Mary is a widow and living with son James, 22. Again there are some little discrepancies as to where she was born.

I also have the 1930 that was sent to me by my new contact but on this one she has a son with a different surname.

Mary Scullon, head, w, 62, Minnesota
Wm. Hyman, son, 39, s, Minnesota
Margaret McArdle, dau, 35, w, Minnesota
James, Scullon, son, 32, s, Montana
Marion McArdle, granddaughter, 12, Montana
Harriot McArdle, granddaughter, 10, Montana

Sarah's first husband was Patick Owens and her son by that marriage was also called Patrick Owens.

Seeing son Wm. Hyman on the 1930 made me think that Sarah had died and Mary was Daniel's second wife, and everything would have fit in quite nicely, but according to my nice new contact, she believes that Daniel died first.

Daniel's first marriage was to Sarah (he never married Annie Adrain)
Sarah's first marriage was to Patrick Owens, second marriage to Daniel, and if Mary was Daniel's second wife, then Sarah should have died first, only I'm told that Daniel died first and Sarah and Mary are one and the same.

My head is spinning and I think I need to put pen to paper instead of looking back and forth from my database to certificates. I'm going to try and piece it all together and hope that when I get the DC for Daniel it might shed some more light on it.

Again, many thanks Sarah.

Regards,
Anne H

[SarahND]

Hi Anne,

The 1900 census I have has them living at 173 Temperance St. City of St. Paul, County of Ramsey, MN. All of the names are the same but there are a few little differences here and there.

Weird!! There they are, as you said... The only thing I can imagine is that between the 2 & 3rd of June, when they were enumerated on Burton Place, and the 14th or 15th of June, when they were enumerated on Temperance Street, they moved house. The two places are about 1/2 mile apart at the most. They were busy going back and forth moving, so when enumerator #2 came to their new home (it was a different person) whoever answered the door (one of the children?) gave sketchy information. If you'd like, I can try to get down to the Historical Society Library and check the directories to see where they were when!

All the best,
Sarah

[Anne H]

Hi Sarah,

If you'd like, I can try to get down to the Historical Society Library and check the directories to see where they were when!

That's a very kind offer but I think you've done more than enough on these Scullions and I don't want you to go out of your way. Actually, although I hope this is the right family, especially since I now have all that good information from the census records, the truth is that I won't be totally convinced until I see something more concrete like death certificates....until then, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks again Sarah, I appreciate all your help

Regards,
Anne H

[SarahND]

Hi again
Sorry, I can't seem to leave this one alone... I would tend to agree with the Montana theory, since Charles (the Montana clergyman) WWI Draft Registration Card gives the exact birthdate you mention for Charles. His nearest living relative is "Mrs. Daniel Scullon"
James' Reg card has the right birthdate too, according to the 1900 census, i.e. July 1897. His nearest relative is "Mrs Mary Scullon (mother)". Is there a significance in the fact that Charles does not refer to Mary as his mother? Or a coincidence? I'm a little confused about Annie Adrain. So the birth record you have for Charles lists Annie as the mother? Of course, that would explain why Mary was not his mother, even if she was really Sarah
I would still guess that Sarah died in Minnesota or Montana and Daniel remarried-- but no proof.

It would have helped to have John's WWI Reg card too, but can't find one with the birthdate you gave. Do you know what happened to him?

All the best,
Sarah

[Anne H]

Hi Sarah,

No need to be sorry…this is fantastic…thank you!

Wow! Was Charles’ Draft Card on Ancestry? I have to have more practice on that site and look for it. If his nearest living relative is "Mrs. Daniel Scullon" that might mean that the death record I pulled on Daniel for 16 Mar 1916 might be the right one after all…hopefully I’ll get confirmation on that soon.

You’re right...Annie Adrain was Charles’ mother and the informants on his BC were both Annie and Daniel. She and Daniel never married but I wonder why Charles referred to Sarah as “Mrs. Daniel Scullon” instead of stepmother? It’s possible that he wasn’t brought up in the household of Daniel and Sarah. I first found Charles as a three-year old on the 1881 census living with his maternal grandparents, Michael and Ann O’Drain in Old Monkland and he’s been sitting in my “maybe” file for the past few years…until last week.

Daniel married Sarah Murray in 1880 in Airdrie and it’s Sarah’s 76-year-old grandson (from her first marriage) who has provided the information on Charles and the Montana/Minnesota connection.

I’ve also been given a copy of a Notice of Probate of Will for Charles in Lewis & Clark that apparently came from the Newspaper Archive…I looked for the Notice on Ancestry, but couldn’t find it or any type of follow-up.

As to John…I’m beginning to wonder if the two younger children (Agnes & John) died, since I don’t see any trace of them anywhere, but I’m still looking for them and trying to get all this new information sorted out in my mind.

Sarah, again, thank you so much for all of this information…it’s wonderful!

Regards,
Anne H

[SarahND]

Hi Anne,

Wow! Was Charles’ Draft Card on Ancestry?

Well, I have to admit that his name shows up in the index as Charles Aloysius Seullon but he has the exactly correct birthdate and was living in Montana, so I thought he was worth a look. I think I got it by searching Charles Scullion with soundex, year of birth 1878. Let me know if you can't find him. James' is indexed as James Joseph Scullon

If his nearest living relative is "Mrs. Daniel Scullon" that might mean that the death record I pulled on Daniel for 16 Mar 1916 might be the right one after all…hopefully I’ll get confirmation on that soon.

I think it has to be him-- How many of them can there have been in Montana at that time?!

So if the information you got was from Sarah's grandson... presumably he knew her and knew, therefore, that Sarah=Mary? Because otherwise it doesn't really sound like they are the same person. Odd that she would say in both 1900 and 1910 that she had given birth to 4 children and all 4 were still living... and why does she say she was born in Ireland? Hmmm. I'm still not convinced by her-- I'll try to explain why.

1) Sarah Murray was born 17 Jul 1860 Old Monkland, Lanark

Mary says consistently that she was born in 1867-8. She also says consistently that she came to the U.S. in 1867-9. In 1900,1910, 1920 she says born in Ireland. 1930 born in Minnesota, but parents born in Ireland. Sounds like she came over when just a baby, from Ireland to Minnesota. Does anyone have a copy of her death certificate? That might give her maiden name and answer a few questions!

2) Who is William Himes??? In 1930 he is her son, born about 1891 in Minnesota. We know he wasn't with her in 1900, so where was he? Apparently also in St Paul, a few blocks away in the house of John Lahliter, born Feb 1871 in Pennsylvania, a plumber
Wm Himes is listed as his SON!!!
His wife is called Harriet and was born Oct 1874 in Iowa
Oh great...

Fast forward to 1910 and where are they? Where else but MONTANA
Lachliter John
--- Harriet S
Himes William F
This time he is down as a stepson!
How can he be both Harriet's and Mary's son???

Just to confuse things more, in 1920 he is back in St Paul, Minnesota-- married, with twin girls and a little boy, as well as a wife named Lillian. The children are in the Minnesota online birth index. Their mother's maiden name is McNulty. This fits because Cristine McNulty, mother-in-law, is with them in 1920.

On his WWI Reg card he says he was born on Sept 29th 1891 in Minneapolis... but no mention of his parents. He just says he has a wife, children and a mother-in-law to support.

Okay, so why is he back in Montana in 1930, pretending to be the son of Mary Scullion???
In 1930 wife Lillian and wee son Robert have disappeared. The twin girls are in the home of their uncle Martin McNulty back in St Paul.

ARE YOU CONFUSED YET????

So, supposing Mary is telling the truth about her four children. They might be:

Gertrude born Minnesota abt 1889
William Himes born Minnesota in abt 1891
Margaret born Minnesota 1894
James born Montana 1898

How many, if any, of these belong to Daniel? Maybe just James? William kept his father's name, since he was not living with Daniel, but the girls changed theirs to Scullion?

James Scullon died in October, 1985 in Sunburst, Toole, Montana. It would be nice to see his death cert to find out who in the world his mother was.

Okay, I'm confused enough for one day... I think I'll sleep on this! Quite a puzzle you have here:!:

Regards,
Sarah

P.S. At least this is making me feel totally normal dividing my time between Minnesota and Idaho It's obviously the thing to do!

[Anne H]

Sarah wrote:

Well, I have to admit that his name shows up in the index as Charles Aloysius Seullon but he has the exactly correct birthdate and was living in Montana, so I thought he was worth a look. I think I got it by searching Charles Scullion with soundex, year of birth 1878. Let me know if you can't find him. James' is indexed as James Joseph Scullon

Hi Sarah,
After my post to you last night, I read your other posts referencing Ancestry and the problems with “exact and soundex searches” and tried with the soundex and found the Draft Cards for Charles and James…so I’m getting help from you in all directions!

Although his full name on the BC is Charles Scullion, I was expecting Charles’ middle name to be Adrain. One thing is certain from the information from the Draft Cards is that Charles the Clergyman, and Mary and family are all connected…and now I know that Charles was “short and stout” – can’t make out color of eyes and I’m not sure if it says his hair was originally black then bald!! This information is great!

Anne H wrote:
If his nearest living relative is "Mrs. Daniel Scullon" that might mean that the death record I pulled on Daniel for 16 Mar 1916 might be the right one after all…hopefully I’ll get confirmation on that soon.

I think it has to be him-- How many of them can there have been in Montana at that time?!

I think so too…I believe I’ve also found the death record for Mary Scullon who died 9 Jan 1950 in Silver Bow, Montana. Mary was apparently buried in Butte so that’s probably her. No one has the DC for Sarah/Mary, as yet.

So if the information you got was from Sarah's grandson...

Actually, I’ve mislead you here…I had initially typed great great grandson then got confused and changed it to read grandson. It is in fact, Sarah’s great, great grandson who gave the information to my contact, his niece …I’m easily confused with this…here’s a little of the story as I know it:

Sarah didn’t take her son, from her previous marriage, to the USA. The son never forgave his mother for leaving him in Scotland and wouldn’t talk about his mother to anyone until late in life…and then, he only told his wife about it. The wife then relayed the information to other family members and it filtered down the line. I don’t doubt that the great great grandson’s memory of what he’s been told isn’t correct (at least in his mind), but it’s more than possible that the story has gone a little astray at some point…after all, it wasn’t talked about for more than 50 years, so plenty of room for error. He also knew that Charles was a teacher, then a priest, and the family in Scotland was very proud of him. He visited Charles’ grave in Montana but couldn’t find his great great grandmother’s grave in Butte where she is apparently buried. He knows that his great great grandmother Sarah/Mary went to Charles’ funeral and supposedly there was a write-up in a newspaper about it…but I don’t know which paper. Apparently, they were very proud of Charles and knew more about Charles than they knew about Sarah/Mary.

Anyway, like you, I’m still inclined to believe that Sarah probably died and Mary was Daniel’s second wife, and something just got lost along the way and he thought that Sarah and Mary were one and the same.

I’m wondering if there is a Pennsylvania connection here rather than the Canadian one I originally thought, because on the 1920 census it states Charles was born in Pennsylvania, although 1900 has his pob as Scotland and 1910 Montana…but, with all the other mentions of PA and Charles’ date of immigration of 1887 which matches the date for the Dan Scullion I found landing in PA, also in 1887….maybe Sarah died in PA and Daniel relocated to Montana later on and met and married Mary there...and so the story continues.

If Sarah and Mary are the same person, with an immigration date of 1867/69 she would have been around 7 - 9 years old then and it would have meant that, if she emigrated with her parents and family, they only stayed a short time then went back to Scotland for her sister Isabella's birth which was October 1870, and they are still in Scotland for the 1871 census…unless she went to the USA with someone else… not impossible, but a bit doubtful.

1) Sarah Murray was born 17 Jul 1860 Old Monkland, Lanark

Mary says consistently that she was born in 1867-8. She also says consistently that she came to the U.S. in 1867-9. In 1900,1910, 1920 she says born in Ireland. 1930 born in Minnesota, but parents born in Ireland. Sounds like she came over when just a baby, from Ireland to Minnesota. Does anyone have a copy of her death certificate? That might give her maiden name and answer a few questions!

2) Who is William Himes??? In 1930 he is her son, born about 1891 in Minnesota. We know he wasn't with her in 1900, so where was he? Apparently also in St Paul, a few blocks away in the house of John Lahliter, born Feb 1871 in Pennsylvania, a plumber
Wm Himes is listed as his SON!!!
His wife is called Harriet and was born Oct 1874 in Iowa
Oh great...

Fast forward to 1910 and where are they? Where else but MONTANA
Lachliter John
--- Harriet S
Himes William F
This time he is down as a stepson!
How can he be both Harriet's and Mary's son???

Just to confuse things more, in 1920 he is back in St Paul, Minnesota-- married, with twin girls and a little boy, as well as a wife named Lillian. The children are in the Minnesota online birth index. Their mother's maiden name is McNulty. This fits because Cristine McNulty, mother-in-law, is with them in 1920.

On his WWI Reg card he says he was born on Sept 29th 1891 in Minneapolis... but no mention of his parents. He just says he has a wife, children and a mother-in-law to support.

Okay, so why is he back in Montana in 1930, pretending to be the son of Mary Scullion???
In 1930 wife Lillian and wee son Robert have disappeared. The twin girls are in the home of their uncle Martin McNulty back in St Paul.

ARE YOU CONFUSED YET????

So, supposing Mary is telling the truth about her four children. They might be:

Gertrude born Minnesota abt 1889
William Himes born Minnesota in abt 1891
Margaret born Minnesota 1894
James born Montana 1898

How many, if any, of these belong to Daniel? Maybe just James? William kept his father's name, since he was not living with Daniel, but the girls changed theirs to Scullion?

James Scullon died in October, 1985 in Sunburst, Toole, Montana. It would be nice to see his death cert to find out who in the world his mother was.

Okay, I'm confused enough for one day... I think I'll sleep on this! Quite a puzzle you have here:!:

Well Sarah, once again, you have certainly put a lot of time and effort into all of this, but me confused? Me? You bet! I’ve been back and forth with this all day laughing and banging my head, and each time I read it, I become more and more confused…this certainly is one interesting family. As for the William Himes scenario, I don’t think I’m even going to touch that for the time being…at least not until I have the rest of it sorted out in my mind!

I need some of these and these and I don't even drink...well, not much anyway

If I don’t hear back from my contact on the DC’s that she has ordered by next week, I’ll go ahead and order them for Charles, Daniel, Mary and James and maybe get to the bottom of this…or at least some of it. I’m now moving from my desk to the dining-room table…more room to try and sort all this out. Many thanks again and have a few of these on me.

Regards,
Anne