Looking for more info on Sommerville / Penman Family

[Aodh]

Hi sarahleeroth,

Welcome to TalkingScot and thanks for the post.

Yes, It appears that there may be some connectiion between your Penmans and mine. I must admit I know very little about the family. I wonder if the Penman name was very common in Newbattle? Your information is very interesting as LesleyB pointed out. Also of interest is the connection to Lucy Maud Montgomery of Green Gables fame. I come from the neighboring island of Cape Breton.

[saraleeroth]

Hello
I was very lucky as soon after I started researching this part of my tree I was contacted by a few people who had done most of the hard work and were willing to share documents, pictures of gravestoes and parish records with me. They had been researching for many years and have provided me with a lot of their effort.
Unfortunately, the rest of my tree hasn't been nearly as easy and after spending a fortune on SP with no luck, I have starting searching elsewhere - thats how I found TalkingScot
Sara

[LesleyB]

Hi Sara

Although it is great to get a helping hand sometimes, I think we have all learned from experience here not to take another researcher's work as "gospel". We are all human, and we all make mistakes...it is easy with family trees to end up off on the wrong branch. Unless you are royalty or gentry (with a well documented tree) or your family left incredibly good documentation, it is generally very difficult indeed to get back to the 1400s with any degree of accuracy.

It is always a wise precaution to go over any trees or parts of trees you are given, checking all the sources of the info as you go, rather than take someone else's word for it. You will probably learn a lot about researching too if you trace the steps taken to come to the conclusions - and that experience will likely help you with your other branch too.

Best wishes
Lesley

[saraleeroth]

hello again
I agree that records are important and I was lucky to have access to parish/chuchyard etc records to back up the info I was given. It helped me to research some of my other branches but unfortunately I have come to a dead end with one branch until I can find a marriage certificate.

[crikwats]

Hello !
Have a look at http://www.carrickdesign.co.uk/familytr ... other.html

Regarding the posting
David Moffat Penman was born 1834 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire and died 17 Aug 1886 in Fairy Bauk, District of Holytown, Lanark. He married Jane Carrick 29 Oct 1859 in Broomknoll Manse, Airdrie. She was born 1835 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire and died 1900 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire, daughter of James Carrick and Janet Russell.

Carrick

Hello
I think you are looking for the same penman ancestors as mine:
Descendants of :
Mr Penn

________________________________________
Generation 1

1. Mr Penn was born 1492 in Dunton, Bedfordshire, England. He married Mrs Penn 1515 in Dunton, Bedfordshire, England. She was born 1494 in Dunton, Bedfordshire, England.

Children of Mr Penn and Mrs Penn:
i. 2. James Penman was born 1522 in Dunton, Bedfordshire, England and died 1597 in Spittell, Lanarkshire

________________________________________
Generation 2

2. James Penman was born 1522 in Dunton, Bedfordshire, England and died 1597 in Spittell, Lanarkshire.

Children of James Penman:
i. 3. John (Johannes) Penman was born 13 Mar 1557 in Dunton, Bedfordshire, England

________________________________________
Generation 3

3. John (Johannes) Penman was born 13 Mar 1557 in Dunton, Bedfordshire, England. He married Agnes Symesoune 1577 in Edinburgh. She was born ABT 1557.

Children of John (Johannes) Penman and Agnes Symesoune:
i. 4. John Penman was born 1578 in Edinburgh, Scotland

________________________________________
Generation 4

4. John Penman was born 1578 in Edinburgh, Scotland. He married Katherine Hamilton. She was born ABT 1578.

Children of John Penman and Katherine Hamilton:
i. 5. Alexander Penman was born 1607 in Dunfermline, Fife

________________________________________
Generation 5

5. Alexander Penman was born 1607 in Dunfermline, Fife. He married Katherine Horn 1627 in Dunfermline, Fife. He married Jean Brown 1641 in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Children of Alexander Penman and Katherine Horn:
i. 6. Robert Penman was born 16 Mar 1628 in Dunfermline, Fife

Children of Alexander Penman and Jean Brown:
ii. George Penman was born 1646

________________________________________
Generation 6

6. Robert Penman was born 16 Mar 1628 in Dunfermline, Fife. He married Margaret Williamson. She was born 02 Jul 1627 in Dysart, Fife, daughter of Robert Williamson and Janet Borthwick.

Children of Robert Penman and Margaret Williamson:
i. LIVING
ii. 7. James Penman was born 09 Dec 1653 in Edinburgh, Scotland

________________________________________
Generation 7

7. James Penman was born 09 Dec 1653 in Edinburgh, Scotland. He married Janet (Jonet) Wilson 1679 in Torryburn, Fife. She was born 08 Dec 1657 in Kinghorn, Fife, daughter of David Wilson and Agnes Suttie.


Descendants of :
James Penman

________________________________________
Generation 1


James Penman was born 09 Dec 1653 in Edinburgh, Scotland. He married Janet (Jonet) Wilson 1679 in Torryburn, Fife. She was born 08 Dec 1657 in Kinghorn, Fife, daughter of David Wilson and Agnes Suttie.

Children of James Penman and Janet (Jonet) Wilson:
i. George Penman was born 07 Dec 1682 in Torryburn, Fife



________________________________________
Generation 2


George Penman was born 07 Dec 1682 in Torryburn, Fife. He married Bessie Hynd 04 Feb 1704 in Torryburn, Fife. She was born 04 Aug 1688 in Torryburn, Fife, daughter of John Hynd and LIVING.

Children of George Penman and Bessie Hynd:
i. John Penman was born 02 Mar 1707 in Torryburn
ii. George Penman was born 14 May 1714 in Torryburn, Fife, Scotland and died 1804 in Port Hill Farm, Prince Edward Island, Canada



________________________________________
Generation 3


John Penman was born 02 Mar 1707 in Torryburn. He married Christian Walker 05 Mar 1735 in Beath, Fife, daughter of David Walker and Mary Bayne or Bean.

Children of John Penman and Christian Walker:
i. George Penman was born ABT 1736 in Fife, Scotland
ii. James Penman was born 12 Nov 1745 in Dunfermline, Fife




George Penman was born 14 May 1714 in Torryburn, Fife, Scotland and died 1804 in Port Hill Farm, Prince Edward Island, Canada. He married Mary Margaret Edgar 06 Jan 1751 in Edinburgh, Scotland. She was born 1731 and died BEF 1770.

Children of George Penman and Mary Margaret Edgar:
i. Nancy Penman was born 1768 and died 02 Aug 1769 in New England, USA
ii. Elizabeth (Betsy) Penman was born 1769 and died 1849 in North Bedeque, Prince Edward Island, Canada
iii. Margaret Penman was born ABT 1771



________________________________________
Generation 4


George Penman was born ABT 1736 in Fife, Scotland.




James Penman was born 12 Nov 1745 in Dunfermline, Fife. He married Elizabeth (Bessie) Gibson 07 May 1752 in Aucenderran, Fife. She was born 03 Sep 1746 in Inveresk, Midlothian, daughter of John Gibson and Janet Wilson.

Children of James Penman and Elizabeth (Bessie) Gibson:
i. John Penman was born 20 Aug 1764 in Auchenderran, Fife and died 22 Jun 1834 in Dunfermline, Fife




Nancy Penman was born 1768 and died 02 Aug 1769 in New England, USA. She married Donald Montgomery 14 Mar 1788 in Princetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada. He was born 1760 in Argyleshire, Scotland and died 1845 in Prince Edward Island.

Children of Nancy Penman and Donald Montgomery:
i. Donald Montgomery was born 1803 in Prince Edward Island, Canada




Elizabeth (Betsy) Penman was born 1769 and died 1849 in North Bedeque, Prince Edward Island, Canada. She married David Murray.

Children of Elizabeth (Betsy) Penman and David Murray:
i. Annie Murray was born 1809 in Prince Edward Island, Canada




Margaret Penman was born ABT 1771.



________________________________________
Generation 5


John Penman was born 20 Aug 1764 in Auchenderran, Fife and died 22 Jun 1834 in Dunfermline, Fife. He married Margaret Duncan 25 Jun 1797 in Cockpen, Midlothian. She was born 09 Jun 1778 in Claybarns and died 19 Jul 1837 in High Street, Dunfermline, Fife, daughter of James Duncan and Margaret Duncan.

Children of John Penman and Margaret Duncan:
i. John Penman was born 25 May 1800 in Cockpen, Midlothian
ii. James Penman was born 19 Oct 1804 in Newton, Midlothian, Scotland and died 22 Mar 1858 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland
iii. Ann Penman was born 28 Sep 1806 in Dalkeith, Midlothian
iv. Margaret Penman was born 14 Feb 1808 in Newton, Midlothian
v. Elizabeth Penman was born 31 Aug 1809 in Cockpen, Midlothian
vi. Peter Penman was born 21 Mar 1813 in Cockpen, Midlothian




Donald Montgomery was born 1803 in Prince Edward Island, Canada. He married Annie Murray. She was born 1809 in Prince Edward Island, Canada, daughter of David Murray and Elizabeth (Betsy) Penman.

Children of Donald Montgomery and Annie Murray:
i. Hugh John Montgomery was born 1807 in Canada and died 1876




Annie Murray was born 1809 in Prince Edward Island, Canada. She married Donald Montgomery. He was born 1803 in Prince Edward Island, Canada, son of Donald Montgomery and Nancy Penman.

Children of Annie Murray and Donald Montgomery:
i. Hugh John Montgomery was born 1807 in Canada and died 1876



________________________________________
Generation 6


John Penman was born 25 May 1800 in Cockpen, Midlothian. He married Elizabeth Sharp 05 Jun 1819 in Lasswade, Midlothian. She was born 1800 in Lasswade, Midlothian.

Children of John Penman and Elizabeth Sharp:
i. John Penman was born 03 May 1820 in Lasswade, Midlothian
ii. Euphans Penman was born 20 Aug 1821 in Tulliallan, Fifeshire
iii. William Penman was born 17 Aug 1823 in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
iv. Joseph Penman was born 04 May 1828 in Old Monkland, Lanakshire
v. James Penman was born 24 Jan 1831 in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
vi. Peter Penman was born 08 May 1831 in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
vii. Margaret Penman was born 1835 in Newbattle, Midlothian
viii. Daniel Penman was born 1843 in Bo`ness, Linlithgowshire




James Penman was born 19 Oct 1804 in Newton, Midlothian, Scotland and died 22 Mar 1858 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland. He married Maren (Marion) Moffat 01 Dec 1827 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland, daughter of David Moffat and Katharine McLaren.
Other events in the life of James Penman
Christening: 04 Nov 1804 in Newton, Midlothian, Scotland


Children of James Penman and Maren (Marion) Moffat:
i. David Moffat Penman was born 1834 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire and died 17 Aug 1886 in Fairy Bauk, District of Holytown, Lanark
ii. John Penman was born 1835 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire
iii. Margaret Penman was born 1836 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark
iv. James Penman was born 1840 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark
v. Jessie (Janet) Penman was born 1845 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark
vi. Catherine Penman was born 1849 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark
vii. Peter Penman was born 1850 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark
viii. Marion Penman was born 1853 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark and died 24 May 1855 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark




Ann Penman was born 28 Sep 1806 in Dalkeith, Midlothian.




Margaret Penman was born 14 Feb 1808 in Newton, Midlothian.




Elizabeth Penman was born 31 Aug 1809 in Cockpen, Midlothian.




Peter Penman was born 21 Mar 1813 in Cockpen, Midlothian.




Hugh John Montgomery was born 1807 in Canada and died 1876. He married Clara Woolner McNeill 1831 in Prince Edward Island, Canada. She died 1849 in Prince Edward Island, Canada.

Children of Hugh John Montgomery and Clara Woolner McNeill:
i. Lucy Maud Montgomery was born 30 Nov 1847 in Clifton, Prince Edward Island, Canada and died 24 Apr 1942 in Toronto, Canada




Hugh John Montgomery was born 1807 in Canada and died 1876. He married Clara Woolner McNeill 1831 in Prince Edward Island, Canada. She died 1849 in Prince Edward Island, Canada.

Children of Hugh John Montgomery and Clara Woolner McNeill:
i. Lucy Maud Montgomery was born 30 Nov 1847 in Clifton, Prince Edward Island, Canada and died 24 Apr 1942 in Toronto, Canada



________________________________________
Generation 7


John Penman was born 03 May 1820 in Lasswade, Midlothian.




Euphans Penman was born 20 Aug 1821 in Tulliallan, Fifeshire.




William Penman was born 17 Aug 1823 in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire.




Joseph Penman was born 04 May 1828 in Old Monkland, Lanakshire. He married Hellen Pettigrew 1852 in Bo`ness, Linlithgowshire. She was born 1828 in Scotland.




James Penman was born 24 Jan 1831 in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire.




Peter Penman was born 08 May 1831 in Old Monkland, Lanarkshire.




Margaret Penman was born 1835 in Newbattle, Midlothian.




Daniel Penman was born 1843 in Bo`ness, Linlithgowshire. He married Jane Potter 1873 in Carnwath, Lanarkshire. She was born 1842 in Livingstone, Edinburghshire.




David Moffat Penman was born 1834 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire and died 17 Aug 1886 in Fairy Bauk, District of Holytown, Lanark. He married Jane Carrick 29 Oct 1859 in Broomknoll Manse, Airdrie. She was born 1835 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire and died 1900 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire, daughter of James Carrick and Janet Russell.




John Penman was born 1835 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire.




Margaret Penman was born 1836 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark. She married John Henderson 21 Jul 1856 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire. He was born 1833 in Abercorn, Edinburgh, Scotland.




James Penman was born 1840 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark.




Jessie (Janet) Penman was born 1845 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark. She married William Blackley 11 May 1866 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire. He was born 1844 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire.




Catherine Penman was born 1849 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark. She married James Moffat 15 Jul 1867 in New Monkland Manse, Lanarkshire. He was born 1848 in Stirlingshire, son of William Moffat and Jane Sneddon.




Peter Penman was born 1850 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark.




Marion Penman was born 1853 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark and died 24 May 1855 in Arden, New Monkland, Lanark.




Lucy Maud Montgomery was born 30 Nov 1847 in Clifton, Prince Edward Island, Canada and died 24 Apr 1942 in Toronto, Canada.




Lucy Maud Montgomery was born 30 Nov 1847 in Clifton, Prince Edward Island, Canada and died 24 Apr 1942 in Toronto, Canada.



My tree is an ancestry .co.uk -it has a few documents attached that you might be interested in. Also worth searching the internet for the mauricewood mining disaster as the penmans were pit inspectors/miners and one died there
Hope this helps
Sara Leeroth

[oorlot]

There appear to be several inconsistencies in the data above.
1. Nancy Penman 1768-1769 married, having died at 1 yr
2. Donald Montgomery and Annie Murray had a son Hugh when they were only infants themselves.
I would really like to see the source documentation included in this file.
Regards Jmje527

[maur33n]

To all those dedicated Penman family researchers, I have some research which may clarify, confuse and confound some of you.
I too am a Penman (Fifer, born and bred) and have been researching my line for about 12 years now. My intensive research has surrounded one John Penman c.1578. (This character has nagged at me for years with questions that have kept cropping up about him, so I decided to do an in-depth study on him. John Penman b.1578 to Johannes Penman and Agnes Symesounne. This may be true, but he is not the one that married first Katherine Hamiltounne 1605 and the Rebecca Hamiltounne 1612. This John was born c.1586 and his father was a William Penman from Musselburgh. He was apprenticed to a Richard Doby an Edinburgh merchant in 1599. Now! merchants recruited their apprentices in their early teens, (12-14 years old) and if you do the maths this would make his birth year c.1586. He became a merchant, Burgess (Hagbuit), which means he had to buy a firearm and lodge it with the armoury (a condition of entry), and in times of trouble retrieve it and use it, as the Burgesses were Edinburghs first line of defence. He eventualy became a Guild Brother (Corslet) buying another piece of hardware, again lodging it with the armoury. He became a member of the Dean of Guild also. He died c.1624. My line comes from his marriage to Rebecca...one Robert Penman b.1614 who married Margaret Williamson, daughter of Richard Williamson and Margaret Mure. Robert was a writer (lawyer) many "Penman" researchers attribute this marriage to Robert b.1628 son of Alexander b.1607; as I did. I think it came from LDS website. Robert also had a son Robert aslo a writer and he married Catherine Murray and also Marjory Meason. Catherine was not his father's second marriage as supposed. (please double check any information from LDS site, it will save you a lot of headaches in the longrun.) They had a son James b.1653. His birth/baptisimal entry contains three witnesses, James Wright (writer) John Penman, (merchant), who was Robert's elder brother by one year and Robert Hamiltoun, (not categorically identifed him yet). Please don't just take my word for this information (because I wouldn't), it is all available online at Mull Genealogy - Scottish Record Society. i.e. Edinburgh Apprentice Register, Edinburgh Marriages, Edinburgh Burgesses etc.
I hope this information helps someone. Please feel free to challenge or re-interpret my findings.
BAYAN.

[maur33n]

Hello Saraleeroth, I am really interested in your Penman line, especially generation 6. Robert Penman and Margaret Williamson is also my direct line, but we seem to have differing information. I have Robert Penman b.1614 as the son of John Penman and Rebecca Hamilton married to Margaret Williamson in 1646. You have Margaret born in Dysart. I have Margaret born in Edinburgh. Could you please enlighten me as to where you came by your information.
Kindest regards,
BAYAN

[Aodh]

Very Interested in your work BAYAN. I found some info - totally unverified, that Johne Penman and Rebecca Hamiltoun had among their many children a daughter, Catherine, b. 1623. This Catherine Penman married James Lockhart who was a merchant in Edinburgh, Scotland. James and Catherine had Katharine Lockhart b. 1654 who married John Gordon. John and Katharine had son, John, b. 1692 in Liberton, Midlothian. John Jr. married Agnes Mathie about 1716 and they had a son James b. 1728 in Gilmerton, Liberton, Midlothian. James married Elizabeth Brotherstones and had Archibald Gordon b. 1764 who married Jacobina Boyd. Archibald and Jacobina had David Gordon b. 1790 who married Margaret Neilson having a daughter Janet Gordon b. 1822. Janet, God love her, completed the circle by marrying James Sommerville who is the son of John Sommerville and Janet Penman from my original query.

Now all that's left to do is PROVE IT!!!

[safw]

My family includes Somervilles, I'm not sure if the different spelling is the same family?

My gggrandmother was Christina or Christian Somerville born 1826/27 Lanark or Crawfordjohn. Died 1886 Lettershaws,
Crawfordjohn.