streets in blantyre.....

[drapadew]

Hello Rab!
Nice to meet a fellow Blantorian,I do have a few q's for you
1 is the Robertson Ginger Works still there

2 Is the building next door to the right of Robertsons were Margaret's dad was born is that still There.

3 At the end of this building it sloped down the road towards Burnbank,at this end there were a couple of very old miners raws,supposed to be the only ones left standing in Lanarkshire.Would they be still there.
I am due over in Blantyre April this year so i will be taking a few photos to post.

[Rab]

Hi Margaret and TDH,

I'm not a full fledged native unfortately as I've only lived in Blantyre for the last 7 years and my wife, from Perth originally, has lived here for 9 years. My wife knows exactly the place you are talking about, Robertsons , and one of her work collegues lives right nearby. My wife will pose those questions to her tomorrow. Hopefully I will have some answers then.

Possibly not this week but definitely next week I'll take some pics. I'm 10 -15mins walk away but with the two kids you can quadrouple that. My wife is backshift next week so either this weekend or during next week I'll take a wander around with the digital camera.

BTW we gave my father-in-law the book about the mining disaster, as seen in the link provided by mctaz, for christmas. The author was autographing copies in our local supermarket. My father-in-law really enjoyed reading it and says, but I've yet to see it, he will pass it on to me for a read.

Cheers

Rab

[drapadew]

Thank you Rab. and Margaret I do know Nessies school very well as I was born 30yds from the school in a miners raws with the very unusual name of THE HONEYMOON.I KID YOU NOT.How it got that name I could never find out ,still trying,There is a great photo on the front cover of OLD BLANTYRE showing a policeman, the building directly over his shoulder is Nessies School.
Researching.
Hart, Dunsmuir, Dunsmore, Naismith, Frame, Brownlie,Finlay,Findlay,Montgomery,Mitchell. LANARKSHIRE.
Carroll, Wilson, Forrester, Gallacher IRELAND.

[Margaret]

Hello Drapadew
The reason I asked was that my Grandad John Morton was the school Janitor there for many years till his death. When my brother visited Glasgow and the Masonic Lodge (which my brother and Dad were members, also my Grandad) he was well remembered as Johnny Morton from Nessies school. I am not sure what year he started there but at his death in 1945 age 71 it is recorded that he was a School Janitor so guess he was still putting in a days work in 45.
Love the name of your Row, and to would be interested in knowing why it was named that.
By the way could you give me an idea how much the book on blantyre will cost me, if you cant put it in the forum could you send a P message please.
All the best

[Rab]

Sorry but no positives.

1 is the Robertson Ginger Works still there

Unfortunately not. The old building was knocked down. In it's place is a new building owned by a company named "Dunns and Moore".

2 Is the building next door to the right of Robertsons were Margaret's dad was born is that still There.

Again not there either. The building was apparently named Robertson's house and had to be knocked down due to subsidence.

3 At the end of this building it sloped down the road towards Burnbank,at this end there were a couple of very old miners raws,supposed to be the only ones left standing in Lanarkshire.Would they be still there.

Not there now either I'm afraid, knocked down a long time ago.

Incidentally the lady from my wife's work said thatthe area Springwells was named after a water spring that was located in the factory. That's a new one on me but interesting.

Sorry to hear that those buildings are no longer there.

Rab

[JimM]

Hi Rab
I think that Robertson's were bought out by Dunn and Moores (who also were in the "ginger" business)... not sure if the brand name survived.
I remember there was something about "Springwell" printed on the Roberson's labels.

Jim

[Rab]

Hi Rab
I think that Robertson's were bought out by Dunn and Moores (who also were in the "ginger" business)... not sure if the brand name survived.
I remember there was something about "Springwell" printed on the Roberson's labels.

Jim

Cheers Jim,

I didn't know that. In that case they must have occupied the old Robertsons place first I assume and then later buildt their own place on the site. Also thanks for the spelling correction on the current occupiers as I was writing down what was said over the phone from my wife's work this morning.

Rab

BTW If needed I'll still go around and take some pics of the place.

[drapadew]

Margaret.
At a rough guess I would say that the book would cost you at to-days rate of exchange, with air mail (VERY LIGHT 54PAGES) into Australia---
30 Australian Dollars.

Free Masonry played a very big part in a lot of my Families.
I am not one.
But I have done a fair amount of research because of my family connections
It is an intriguing subject and has in the past demanded a life time of study from many a scholar.
In that small amount of research from the records of my families and the research that I have done.
I have established (IN MY MIND) That all of these families first connections were through the local Masonic Lodge.
It was a case of 'HEY FELLOW WELL MET' Have I got a sister for you. and so the first introduction was established with two families.
Remember this is a speculation or theory of mine and nothing else . I do not have any documented evidence.
There has to be a great amount of family history just locked up in the minutes of many a Masonic Lodge meeting.
As in, who participated at the meeting and the date of the meeting, remembering that these meetings have gone on for some hundreds of years and as was the way, very meticulous records were kept.
But just try and get it. I have, but so far have had no luck.
TDH

[Margaret]

Drapadew
many thanks for info on cost, will have the money ready looking forward to seeing the book.
Dont know how you will ever find out information on Mason's as a daughter in the house of a Mason I never heard anything, other than that my Dad always said a Mason always looks after a Mason and his family. Yes there would be so much great information to be gathered from the records of meetings.
Well hot as hot here so off for a swim, catch up soon
All the best

[drapadew]

Margaret.
I too had relations born in the Robertson Buildings(landings, Land) 1888, 10 years before your dad was born 1898.Who knows the way the families moved around through evictions etc,they could have been born in the same home.
I remember you had said that you had visited Blantyre in 1949(the year I was conscripted into the army,another tale)and that you were looking forward to a visit in 2007.I can tell you now it is not the same place.At seven you will probably have scant memories if any of Blantyre.Although
today it is sill a fairly nice village in parts, but in my days it was the nicest wee place in the world and mostly because of the folks who lived there.
Only the folks around you can make a place seem great, even if it is not! That’s where my love of Blantyre comes from.Most people passing through Blantyre would normally pass through without ever thinking well!! that’s a nice place.But if one went off the main street, there were many a pretty place to view mother nature in all her glory.Well they or someone said that Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my memories are of its people.

Two of my brothers lived with their families in Springwells. One Parkville Drive the other on Springwell Crescent.

The Robertson ginger works as we called them, was not the place to pass if you were a male and it was at lunch time.A lot of the women and girls especially during the war years just loved to get outside and sit down,with their backs up against the wall and have a smoke and heckle every man in sight ,regardless of his age,all good clean fun.You were always guaranteed a good laugh of sorts.
I pal I knew was passing bye, and this woman calls out to him.Hey son where's yer bum did ye leave it in yer either trousers.,and this other women shouts out before he can answer ,eh disnay have a bum, I''s only got the wan pair o trousers.
The Blantyre women were special,they had to be among those Blantyre men.

When you left Springwells and started travelling West towards Bairds Raws direction you past under one of the two Railway Bridges across the main street which carried the Railway lines we talked about.In between the then two bridges was the Whistleberry Road parts of which are still there,This road was famous to all the young courting couples from Blantyre, Burnbank and Bothwell it was about a mile long and ran from Blantyre to Bothwell.I did and I am sure your dad most haved walked it many times. It was a really pretty place to visit.The Craighead pit was down there on the left and the road going past the old pit and bing took you down to a Railway and pedestrian bridge across the river clyde into Bothwell.Many a Blantyre Lass walked over this road and bridge to get to the Bothwell Academy, this was the highest school of learning for all of the girls in the near vicinity.Only the brightness of pupils were accepted .
Craighead retreat house was also down the Whistleberry Road, this also was a school of learning for young men entering into the Catholic priesthood
This place was well hidden off the road and had a long long driveway hidden by massive trees,I had only one occasion to visit the enclave and was very impressed with the grandeur of the property.I do not know if it is still there.

Across the road was a very well wooded area behind a stone wall,this I believed belonged to the Duke of Hamilton,it had an upper and lower entrance consisting of a large decorated gate between two massive red sandstone pillars beside a gate house of the same red sandstone color this red sandstone brick was used mostly on the more expensive construction throughout the Blantyre and Bothwell area.the same type of brick used on Bothwell Castle and the Blantyre Priory( Monks enclave founded 1200s) The color of this brick when displayed in a fair sized construction with its shadows and various edges can be a site to see in the full and setting sun,as I have witnessed on a visit to the Bothwell castle.
This huge piece of property was taken over by the army during the war years and a regiment was stationed here for about 10years as you can imagine it did not do much good for the property, after the war it was turned into an industrial and housing estate.

There was also a fairly large brickworks of the Whistleberry Road, I remember this place with its large furnaces lighting up the area when the furnace doors were open,its as if you could feel the heat and you were at lease 100yds from the entrance to the works, I do believe it went under the unique name of THE BLANTYRE BRICKWORKS.Catchy eh!

Back up on the Main Street after passing under the second railway bridge. Rosendale is on your left side and the Bairds Raws is on your right.
Rosendale is the bus stop where the lad with the to greyhounds tried to get on the bus.
Rosendale place was the name given to a large 3 storey tenement type buildings with the first floor entrance from the Main Street,the other entrance for the other two stories was around the back of the building or buildings with an attached tiered stairway,as a child when I first saw this stairway at such an angle it was frightening.Everyone in Blantyre had an occasion to see this because when the The Shows(FUN FAIR)as we called it came to the village it was parked in a piece of wasteland directly behind the Rosendale buildings.That stairway look scary to me.
The first street on your left would be Auchinraith Road which as I said before led from the Low Blantyre Main Street up to the High Blantyre Main Street.ON the corner of Rosendale and Auchinraith was the Auchinraith Mens Club a well frequented place for the miners,Directly across the street was the Smiddy bar which must have taken its name from the blacksmith shop that once was active in this area.We had a lot of pubs in Blantyre,nearly every other corner on the Main Street there was a pub and well used.Must admit I was partial to a few myself.

Again as you travel along the Main Street on your left the buildings were of the 2 storey tenement type, Shops or storage areas bottom floor with living quarters through the close and up the attached stairways.There were only two important shops that I can remember in this block one was a barber shop for men.Very few of us boys went to the barbers,it was sit doon in the chair bowl on your heed and all that stuck out from the bowl was chopped off,or in the summer the first day of the summer vacations from school the lot was chopped off.It was nothing to see some kids with fresh scars on their heads due to scissors.Quite often mum had to do it,and of course the shoes came off,if you had any.
The other shop was a watch repairers.and he had this large clock hanging outside his shop which a lot of people used as their own time piece,large enough that one could see it a block away,if you were sitting in a bus passing the shop you could see the people just by habit take a glance at the clock.It was in those days, much used.

At the end of these buildings stood a church in its own grounds,this would also be on the corner of Herbertson Street. Opposite corner was the CO-OP. our co-op number was 2587 never forgot it.And another number that is forever riveted into my mind ,is our Ration Book number ,our identification number as it was called.My own was SHBJ-445. The SHBJ-44 was the identity of the family and where they lived,the 5 identified me as the fifth oldest in the family,this number was used extensively, much more so than your name during the period 1939-1950,or until you were conscripted in to the forces where they gave you an other number. They even number your lair, but who cares then, I at least wont have the bother too remember that one.
The co-op was the largest row of shops in Blantyre,everyone at some time or other shopped at the co-op We had the Tailors, the butchers, the grocers, the hardware, the fancy goods, the millinery and a huge bakery,which daily sold every known loaf of bread ,biscuits,and yummy cakes, I can taste those treacle scones one of my favorites,they were gooooooddd! I can remember a lot of us lads used to queue up on a Monday morning first thing so we would be in line for the broken biscuits(all cookies to us were called biscuits) which you purchased at probably a 20th of the original price I some times wonder why! why! would we boys queue up for broken biscuits,I must tell you that they were one of the items rationed during and shortly after the war years.Your ration book consisted of different colored stamps which depending on the type of purchase you made were extracted from one or two of your ration books in the family.each stamp had a particular value allotted to it.only on paper. you always had to pay a monetary cost for the item.
Father and mother had books which had greater amount of stamps in them than the teenage children,the young children about ten and under had a different type of book,the stamps within their books allowed their parents to purchase items like Bananas, Orange Juice,Cod liver oil,and Malt.These were all considered as necessary for the nutritional and physical being of the child.I must admit it never did me any harm,and as I am still here ,some good.My little mum made sure we had our dose of something every day.There of course was a thriving black market in Ration Books.
I think our love or want for the broken biscuits was in fact a want for the sweetness.which we were deprived of.I sure did love those broken chocolate ones.Anything that contained sugar in its manufacturing was rationed.
Around the side entrance in Herbertson Street was the C0-OP entrance to the Dancehall. This was held every Wednesday,7-11pm,Friday night was late night 7-1AM, and Saturday 7-11.30pm.In those days we were having a Rear teer on the fleer,un cuttin a rugg.With an occasional punch-up.

An other item of interest to historians of Blantyre was that in the early 1930,s the then Blantyre co-op had heard that the Auchinraith pit was closing down, and they had just recently introduced the delivery of coal throughout Blantyre so they started negotiations with the management to buy The Auchinraith pit. The then co-op formed in Blantyre was a tremendous boost to the economy and lives of the Blantyre Folks who all shared in the dividends that were paid out each year.
The average wage of a miner in 1883 when the Blantyre co-op was formed was about 3 shillings and sixpence per day,to join the co-op it would cost him 1 shilling and 2 pence.this gave him a share in the company and a share in the dividend. One has to remember 1883 there were still a lot of miners who were still under the yoke of the owners ,maybe not as obvious as before, but that which you and your families had lived with for many a year was hard to break away from, if you could.It had to have been a mind shattering occurance for some miners,he comes up out of the pit and some one comes over to him and says that he will give him a share in a business for 1shilling and 2pence and that will give him the rights to go in to a grocery etc store and buy goods for a price lower than other stores in the neighbourhood including the store owned by his employer,and at the end of the year they will pay him some money for doing so.

Two of my families were involved in the formation of the co-op,I found this out by reading through the yearly report.This I did not know! again this was history of my family ,telling me who they were and substantiating dates. It's amazing where you can dig up this info and without trying just by reading a report.

Also on Hebertson Street was a saw and joinery mill owned by William Roberts where all of Blantyre went to get any wood work done.The Manse for the church on the corner was around here.The top entrance Herbertson Street was a mixture of 2 storey tenement and private homes,the other end of the street finished at Auchinraith Road which was running at a 45 degree angle with the Main Street of Blantyre

If you crossed over the Main Street from Herbertson Street,this would put you just past the Cart entrance going down to Bairds Raws. Again we have a tenement 2 storey type building,with stores Main Street Level and through the close, you go upstairs to the second level.
In this building of note was Blacks Bakery.This was one of the two bakerys in Blantyre that sold morning rolls, and in the early morning hours 6.00AM-9.00AM. the shop on the main street did not open until 9.00am,you had to go around the back of the building and go directly into the bake house,This was great ,for when you opened the door there was this great smell of the baked rolls and the terrific heat from the ovens much appreciated by anyone coming in off the night-shift and making their way home to their families with these warm rolls,especially if it was in one of the cold mornings of winter.I have experienced this and I do cherish the memories.I hated night shift!.

The next street on the right preceding west from Blacks the bakers is Forrest Street. This street ran from the Main Street and ended at the railway line. over the line was the river Clyde Braes,which I have already spoken about,Most roads running North from the Main Street finished up or close to the River Clyde.
Forrest street again was a street of 2 storey tenement type homes, through the close and upstairs to the 2nd floor, 1st floor you entered in from the close or from the street itself.
On the left hand side you had the entrance to the Horseshoe Bar and then you had about 100yds of this 2 type storey tenement and then you hit the Blantyre Victoria Football Field.This ran mostly all the way down to the Railway line then the Braes.There were a couple of smallholdings in between, one in particular was a piggery ,which on ocasions was not to pleasant a smell in that area,especially if a football game was being played. Between the dung in the streets,the piggery, and the guy next door ,some days it could be quite rough.There was also a saw mill somewhere in this area.

On the right hand side travelling north would be the side entrance into the homes and the Blacks Bakery,after that you came to one of my favourite places as a child, The Salvation Army Hall.My little pals and I use to go down to the hall in a Sunday afternoon for our Ginger and biscuits all free, and you were encouraged to sing at the top of your voice,which I could not do in my own home,it was just great.We did not know what we were singing about but with biscuits and ginger who cared.We were all little tough guys,so girls always suffered.After we came out of the service, if you can call it that,We would immediately start making fun of the Salvation Army,like singing songs about them.One I can remember went.
The Salvation Army free from sin all went to heaven in a corned beef tin.
the corned beef tin began to smell, so they jumped out and landed in h--l
I have to-day the greatest respect for the Salvation Army,and in my books they are the very best, in all that they do.
Further on down the road you had the main entrance to the oil works and then you hit a very rough man made path leading from Forrest Street and going over to the Village Railway Station 'A SHORTCUT' This was a great savings for the people who lived furthest east in Blantyre and who had to catch a train for what ever reason.
You can just about see the entrance into Forrest street from the Main Street,on page 34 of "OLD BLANTYRE BOOK".
If you look past the tram car on the left hand side you can make out a piece of a cart ,then two poles ,right on the second pole there is a window with a white blind drawn down.Left down here would be the entrance to Forrest street.
hiv a guid yen. = I say darling! do have a pleasant day.
TDH.