Help deciphering US census page please

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ellenavon
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:24 pm
Location: Cardiff

Help deciphering US census page please

Post by ellenavon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:53 am

Hi All

Looking for some 2nd opinions please.

I am doing a one name study of the surname Packman. (Starting with Scots born ones!)

Im currently following one of my directly related Packman lines, the family of James Packman (my 5th great grand uncle) and Margaret Garden(er).

Three of their sons emigrated to the States, including Andrew G Packman b. 1849 @ Poolewe, Gairloch, Ross-shire. He married a Lizzie Robertson in Aberdeen in 1876. In 1881 he is in prison in Kent :shock: Don't yet have him in 1891.

In 1900 I believe this is him in Manhattan, New York. Am about to upload to gallery. Could someone please check for me that I'm not just making the details fit...... Ancestry has him transcribed as Stom Packman! But I'm sure that underneath some later added writing, its Andrew.

I believe it reads: (added later - sorry should have said he and his wife are on lines 5 & 6)

Packman Andrew, Head, White, Male, b. ? month, 1850, 49yrs, Married, for 10yrs, b. Scotland, both parents b. Scotland, yr of immigration 1883, 17yrs in US, naturalised, Carpet ???, Furniture Store.

If the above is correct, he is who I think he is, if I'm making it up I'll have to think again!!

Also if anyone can help with his confused marital record I'd be much obliged :roll:

1. He married Lizzie Robertson in 1876.
2. Lizzie is alone in Dundee in 1881, a barmaid, and Edinburgh in 1891, a housekeeper.
3. If the above 1900 US record is him, he claims to have been married to "Matie" b. New York 1855 to Irish parents for 10 yrs, so approx 1890.
4. 1910 he's a boarder in Manhattan in 1910, a widower.
5. 1920, he's still in Manhattan, now with a wife Magdalene b. 1876 in Austria of Austrian/German parents, who immigrated to US 1905.

I'm off to check Lizzie Robertson/Packman's death in Scotland, but would be obliged if anyone can help with the US side - or at least direct me as to where/how I can find the records. I do have a full worldwide Ancestry subscription.

Many thanks for sticking with my ramble. :)

Ellen
Last edited by ellenavon on Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Researching: Grant; MacIntosh; Wright; Parley; Souter; Jaffray; Sangster; all North East & Speyside and Sutherland, Glasgow then Sutherland County; Buchanan, Stirlingshire; Lamond, North East; Stronach, Morayshire to name but a few!
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ellenavon
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:24 pm
Location: Cardiff

Post by ellenavon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:56 am

Ooops - the file is too large. Its a jpeg file saved from Ancestry - can anyone please give me simple :oops: instructions on how to condense the file so I can upload it.

Cheers

Ellen
Researching: Grant; MacIntosh; Wright; Parley; Souter; Jaffray; Sangster; all North East & Speyside and Sutherland, Glasgow then Sutherland County; Buchanan, Stirlingshire; Lamond, North East; Stronach, Morayshire to name but a few!
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ellenavon
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:24 pm
Location: Cardiff

Post by ellenavon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:04 pm

Oh blimey - Lizzie Robertson/Packman didn't die till 1934 in Edinburgh, the widow of Andrew Garden Packman. :shock:

Ellen.
Researching: Grant; MacIntosh; Wright; Parley; Souter; Jaffray; Sangster; all North East & Speyside and Sutherland, Glasgow then Sutherland County; Buchanan, Stirlingshire; Lamond, North East; Stronach, Morayshire to name but a few!
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mallog
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:41 am
Location: Ayrshire Coast

Post by mallog » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:42 pm

I've got one of them, Ellen. Not Packman but one who goes to U.S. and suddenly has a new wife :roll:
Anderson, McAlpine, Blue - Argyll
Dunn Fife /ML
Coutts, McGregor - Perth/Govan
Glen, Crow, Imrie - Angus
Scott & Pick ML
Mason - Co Down
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joette
Global Moderator
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:13 pm
Location: Clydebank

Post by joette » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:46 pm

One way of avoiding the divorce courts-the cheaper option & in those days abroad was almost like dying in terms of communication.

I love the description of bigamy as the poor man's divorce!
Researching:SCOTT,Taylor,Young,VEITCH LINLEY,MIDLOTHIAN
WADDELL,ROSS,TORRANCE,GOVAN/DALMUIR/Clackmanannshire
CARR/LEITCH-Scotland,Ireland(County Donegal)
LINLEY/VEITCH-SASK.Canada
ALSO BROWN,MCKIMMIE,MCDOWALL,FRASER.
Greer/Grier,Jenkins/Jankins
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SarahND
Site Admin
Posts: 5642
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Re: Help deciphering US census page please

Post by SarahND » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:02 pm

Hi Ellen,
What a terrible page to try to decipher! I agree with the Andrew (rather than "Stom" :!: )... and am amazed you came up with anything for the occupation! :shock: I assume you fiddled with it in some photo program, as the version I get on Ancestry is virtually unreadable. Unfortunately, they are not as good as SP at correcting illegible images, but you might as well tell them. Maybe in another 20 years they will have got around to fixing it! :roll:

All the best,
Sarah
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ellenavon
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:24 pm
Location: Cardiff

Post by ellenavon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:37 pm

Hi to Sarah and everyone, thanks for your input and to Andrew and Jean who are helping by pm. Andrew is kindly still trying to upload the image for me.

You are right Sarah, its a nightmare to decipher. I didn't do anything as fancy as working with a photo program - I wish! - I just blew it up as big as I could. That's why I am afraid I'm reading what I want to see into what's actually there - or almost there anyway :roll:

So while I'm not 100% that this Andrew is the same as the 1910 and 1920 one(s), there are no others to be found so he pretty much has to be the same - if you get my drift. Even if that does make him a double bigamist :shock: Wonder what other skeletons he has in the closet - what was he in jail for in Kent in 1881 for instance? Wonder if there was another wife left on the dockside in Kent.

If anyone happens across any Scots born Packmans in their travels, I've love to know for my study.

Thanks again for all your interest.

Ellen.
Researching: Grant; MacIntosh; Wright; Parley; Souter; Jaffray; Sangster; all North East & Speyside and Sutherland, Glasgow then Sutherland County; Buchanan, Stirlingshire; Lamond, North East; Stronach, Morayshire to name but a few!
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AndrewP
Site Admin
Posts: 6168
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Location: Edinburgh

Post by AndrewP » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:54 pm

Hi Ellen,

The image is now uploaded into the TalkingScot Gallery.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1568

All the best,

AndrewP
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ellenavon
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:24 pm
Location: Cardiff

Post by ellenavon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:59 pm

Thanks so much Andrew. Now everyone can have sore eyes trying to make it out!

Cheers

Ellen.
Researching: Grant; MacIntosh; Wright; Parley; Souter; Jaffray; Sangster; all North East & Speyside and Sutherland, Glasgow then Sutherland County; Buchanan, Stirlingshire; Lamond, North East; Stronach, Morayshire to name but a few!
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SarahND
Site Admin
Posts: 5642
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Post by SarahND » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:09 pm

I've already squinted enough over this one, and am looking forward to seeing what others come up with! :lol:
Good luck!
Sarah
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