Jane Souter, b. Tyrie, Aberdeenshire 1855?

[ellenavon]

This one is a real headbanger
I'd be really grateful of some help.

Jane Souter, as far as I have found so far, is first recorded on this earth in 1875 at the birth of her 1st and illegitimate son George Wilson Souter
(b.18 June 1875 @ New Pitsligo, Tyrie, Father George Wilson not recorded on cert).

Just under one year later, Jane marries Alexander Parley on 10 June 1876 at the parish church of Slains. She's a Domestic Servant, 21 years, of Upper Brogan, Parish of Slains. Father William Souter, Joinery master, deceased, and Mother Jane souter, ms, Ritchie, deceased.
Witnesses Andrew Parley and William Souter - a brother?

Jane goes on to have another 9 children with hubby Alexander. Have found her on all censuses with him from 1881 onwards. All ages given point to 1854/5 birth and Tyrie is consistently birthplace. She dies in 1941 at Lonmay. Her daughter notifies death and gives father as William Souter, but can't remember her grandmothers name. (not surprising as she was dead before she was born).

My problem is that I can not find Jane's birth anywhere, and I can not find her on the 1871 census before her marraige.
I can not find her parents either on the 1841 or the 1851.
I have also tried under Ritchie in case her parents weren't married. No luck.

(There are submitted entries for her on LDS. While I have confirmed the marraige details given by cross checking with SP, the birth details are obviously guessed at from the marraige cert, and do not tie in with the census info for place of birth)

If anyone can help me crack this one I'd be really grateful.

Thanks

Ellen.

[sporran]

Hello Ellen,


a lot of people have "census aliens", or people who appear for a census but do not exist elsewhere. Mine is John McCurdy, 14, born New Cumnock, living with grandparents in Newcraighall for 1881, and no sign of him before or after.

Yours takes things to a new level. She is well recorded from her son's birth in 1875 but no trace beforehand. Parents and a presumed brother are mentioned but there is no other evidence of their existence. I have tried different names, mishearings, misspellings, etc. but nothing. The only remaining hope appears to be the 1861 census.

I may revisit this problem but I thought that you ought to know that you are not the only one having no success with her.


Regards,

John

[ellenavon]

Thanks so much for your reply John.

I was beginning to think

a. that I've learned nothing in my whole nearly a year's experience (!)since I couldn't find her

and

b. that no-one else was interested in poor Jane

Thanks for your interest, I appreciate it. I'm going to give her yet another go at the weekend. She must be somewhere!

I'll probably have to be patient for the 1861 to come online - not my best quality!

Regards

Ellen.

[DavidWW]

Ellen

Firstly, can we assume that her maiden surname consistently appears as SOUTER; and that ages point consistently to 1853/54?

If those birth years are correct then there's more than a good chance that there never was a record of her birth or that any record hasn't survived.

Worth following up that IGI submitted record, but if the birth was 1855 then there should also be an extracted record, - in other words I'd be putting my money on a pre-1855 birth.

Have a look at the New Statistical Account to see what dissenting congregations there were in Tyrie.

Back then in Aberdeenshire folk were quite mobile so that while Jane may have been born in Tyrie, that's no guarantee that siblings were born there(or that she was for that matter, if the family moved to Tyrie when she was too young to realise it).

While you might well have to wait for the 1861 and earlier censuses to get anywhere, you do know that Jane had a brother, maybe cousin William.

I'm grasping at straws, but there is an interesting 1881 entry ..........

Dwelling:
Census Place: Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203463 GRO Ref Volume 228 EnumDist 2 Page 18
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William SOUTTER M 32 M Peterhead, Aberdeen, Scotland
Rel: Head
Occ: House Carpenter Master
Elizabeth Ann SOUTTER M 30 F England
Rel: Wife
Ann Eliza SOUTTER 7 F England
Rel: Daur
Occ: Scholar
Robert SOUTTER 5 M England
Rel: Son
Occ: Scholar
Alexander Robertson SOUTTER 3 M England
Rel: Son
James SOUTTER 2 M England
Rel: Son

Like father, like son in terms of occupation

Equally tempting, but straw grasping, is the 1871 census 17 year old Jane SUTTER, born New Pitsligo, in the GRANT household ..... tempting to speculate as follows: Mr Grant asks the servant lassie where she's from, and she answers New Pitsligo which is where she was living, which parish just happens to border Tyrie ............

When you say that you've looked in the 1841 and 1851 censuses I assume that you mean just Tyrie.

Davie

[ellenavon]

Thanks Davie.

D'you think you've taught me nothing on these boards.......

I've at least learned not to assume anything!!! Have looked all over on all available parishes on freecen. Going to try again.

However, I'm off now to investigate further on this William you've spotted.

Bloomin pest him if he's gone and got married in England - you get hardly anything on the English certs - and have to wait an eternity for them to come in the post to boot.

I'm going to check on Ancestry and see if he was in England in 1871. Maybe he did make the long trek home for Jane's wedding in 1876 (even though this one had children born in England around that time)- especially if she had no other family left around, since she reckons both her parents were deceased at her marraige.

Now that you mention it I'm sure I do have that Jane Sutter printed off somewhere as a possible. I really must get my "maybes" files tidied up!

Thanks for the leads, I'll let you know how I get on.

Regards

Ellen.

[ellenavon]

Davie et al

Luck and no luck!

Looked at the 1881 for the William you found - got all excited as I found a William Souter b.1852 in Tyrie!

Went to SP to get the marriage - huh! Had already looked at it. Don't reckon its Jane's brother as father William was a Day Labourer and mother was Agnes, can't read ms but looks like Shewan or something.

Anyway, back to the William you found. Found another son born in Old Deer. (also William). Dad and mum were married 1873 in Jarrow, Durham.
Not sure of mum's maiden name - Leitch/Reitch?

Have uploaded (I think) the cert to the gallery if you'd like to have a look.

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-213

However - no more children born Old Deer, and can't find the family in Aberdeenshire on the 1891. Either moved out of county, or gone back to England.

Can't find death for William in Aberdeenshire to get confirmation of his parents.

Its Ancestry after all to try and get them on the 1891 now.

Regards

Ellen.

[ellenavon]

OK guys - what do you think of this then?

Have got the William born Tyrie (b.1852 on the 1881 census) on the 1851 at Blackhills, Tyrie, age 5 months, with his mum and dad, William Souter, unfortunately Ag Lab, age 28, and Agnes, wife, age 39.

And next door, also Blackhills.......

Jean Ritchie, unmarried, age 34, born Fraserburgh, with elderly parents John age 79 and Margret, age 77.

Do you think........?

Ellen.

[AndrewP]

Hi Ellen,

Not sure of mum's maiden name - Leitch/Reitch?

I'd say the maiden surname is Veitch. Look at the V in Village in the "Where and When Born" box.

In the entries above, T can be seen in Thirtieth, and R in his signature, Robt. They are both different in style from the V in Veitch (and Village).

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[ellenavon]

Thanks Andrew - yes I can see it now.

Latest progress.

Can not find a death for Agnes Souter nee Shirran (made out the surname) after 1855, so could have died between 1851 leaving the way clear for Jean to give birth to Jane fathered by William??????

Poor Jean then died on 22nd December 1855 age 36, unmarried. Informant her landlord.

Hmmm.

Ellen.

[DavidWW]

Hi Ellen,

Not sure of mum's maiden name - Leitch/Reitch?

I'd say the maiden surname is Veitch. Look at the V in Village in the "Where and When Born" box.

In the entries above, T can be seen in Thirtieth, and R in his signature, Robt. They are both different in style from the V in Veitch (and Village).

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

Ellen

I'd agree with Andrew.

Davie