Worrying trends in change of Scots place names

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:15 pm

I know it has been going on for centuries, but I'm a bit concerned about a few recent developments...

A wee close in St Andrews seems to have been renamed in the last few years. It used to be called Baxters Wynd but it's new name is Bakers Lane - what is going on here? Also in St Andrews it seems that the local pronunciation of places is conforming to an English, not a Scots pronunciation e.g. North Haugh seems now to be pronounced North "Haw".

The park in Cupar, ten miles away, is a Haugh - pronounced with normal Scots "gh" (similar to Scots "ch"), yet the same "Haugh" in St Andrews has become an English pronunciation, probably because of the large numbers of students there from places other than Scotland, who over the years, due not being able to pronounce the Scots word, have effectively changed the name of that area.

I worry slightly that in an extreme case it may not be long until all our lochs have become locks... those in Scotland should surely be trying to maintain the traditional placenames and pronunciation as part of our heritage and our culture, instead of allowing our history to be "rubbed out" in this way.

Post by **joette** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:43 pm

I couldn't agree more Lesley.Whilst it's nice to be able to pronounce & understand where you are going if we can cope with Uzbekistan & the like folks can cope with Loch & Haugh!
I am so sick of explaining pronounciation of Scottish words & trying to Englifiy them.
I now say "It's called such & such & I have no idea what you English would call it"
I was trying to explain the meaning of the word "pend" as in space between two residential buildings which are attached further up.
I think everywhere & everything is becoming generic-you could be anywhere in the World if you look at any local High St just about!

Post by **Ina** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:22 pm

Hi Lesley,

I agree. I've lived in the USA for many years and it bothers me when I hear Scottish words mispronounced.......for example Edinburg for Edinburgh and locks for lochs.

When I go home on holiday I notice that the Scots language is disappearing and people are speaking "proper English".

However I just got this video sent to me and it's encouraging that the weans in Scotland are being encouraged to use the Scots language.

See:
http://entertainment.stv.tv/tv/125478-s ... alk-right/

Ina

Andrew C. · Post by **Andrew C.** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:58 pm

I hope Grannie Clarke's Wynd has not been changed in St Andrews a source of much school boy humour.

Post by **Anne H** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:41 pm

Lesley wrote...

... those in Scotland should surely be trying to maintain the traditional placenames and pronunciation as part of our heritage and our culture, instead of allowing our history to be "rubbed out" in this way.

I whole heartedly agree with that, but could it be there isn't enough opposition by the Scottish people to outrule the local authorities and tourist boards who I believe are responsible for these changes?

I would have thought that by now that the local authorities after so many hundreds of years would realize changes such as these are completely unnecesary, and that the tourist industries would have realized that when people come to Scotland - they want the real Scotland.

Nothing worse than going back home and thinking I've never left the USA...everything is the same - at least leave us with the street names!

Regards,
Anne H

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:59 pm

Hi Andrew

hope Grannie Clarke's Wynd has not been changed in St Andrews a source of much school boy humour.

I'll try to check next time I'm passing!!

Best wishes
Lesley

Post by **Ina** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:27 pm

I was just on the Isle of Islay in May and I noticed that several of their street signs are in both English and Gaelic.

Ina

Post by **Tracey** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:47 pm

Ina wrote:I was just on the Isle of Islay in May and I noticed that several of their street signs are in both English and Gaelic.

Ina

If you ever visit Brick Lane (or nearby areas) in Londons' East End you better brush up on your Bengali to read the road signs or you may never find your way around

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:11 am

Ina wrote:I was just on the Isle of Islay in May and I noticed that several of their street signs are in both English and Gaelic.

In many areas of highland Scotland, particularly the north-west; and most of the Inner Hebrides islands, you will find the bilingual signs. Go to the Outer Hebrides and you will find most of the road signs in Gaelic only.

All the best,

AndrewP

Adam Brown · Post by **Adam Brown** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:58 am

When Golspie hosted the National Mod in 1995 a lot of road signs were changed to be bilingual. I don't know if that happens to every town which hosts the Mod or was just a Sutherland District Council thing?

In Brora a few years ago the council dickied up a bit of land in Lower Brora. It was signposted with something like the 'South Shore'. Everyone in Brora knew the beach north of the River Brora as the 'Front Shore' and the stretch south as the 'Back Shore' (look at a map and it makes sense!). After a lot of moaning by the locals the 'South' signs were replaced with 'Back' so with a bit of local will new "foreign" names can be reversed. It's got a lot to do with how many locals are in a community and how many are incomers though.

Cheers

Adam