trouble understanding terminology in Will

[BarbR]

Hi,

I don't know if there are any lawyers on Talking Scot, but thought I would put this out there to see if anyone could shed some light and help me understand the meaning of the following:

Whereas by a bond dated the fifth day of March one thousand eight hundred and fifty five I became bound to John Noakes of Ticehurst aforesaid Farmer and Edmund Hilder of Rye in the said County Victualler as Trustees of my wife Sarah Jarvis in the penal sum of eight hundred pounds conditioned for the payment of four hundred pounds by executors or administrators to the said John Noakes and Edmund Hilder or the survivor of them his executors or administrators within twelve calendar months after my decease and which debt I do hereby acknowledge and confirm and I direct that the same shall be paid within twelve calendar months after my decease

In anticipation

Barb

[Alan SHARP]

Hi Barb

I’m just a dumb kiwi yokel farmer, but have been executor of both my wife’s will and my Father’s, and been closely associated with several others. So my layman’s attempt would be as follows.

The date of the instrument (bond – repayment of moneys owed) was March 5th, 1855 acknowledging that -
John NOAKES a (occupation) farmer and Edmond HILDER a (occupation) Victualler (probably an Inn Keeper or spirits merchant).

They being the named trustees of (the) wife Sarah JARVIS

The sum owing being eight hundred pounds.

Four hundred pounds of which (I- Husband of Sarah JARVIS) was acknowledging and making himself responsible for, and directing that such sum would be paid no later than 12 calendar months after his death, either to the named farmer and the named Victualler or their respective estates.

But lets see what the experts say. Alan SHARP.

[BarbR]

Thanks for that Alan,
but I'm wondering why the wife, Sarah Jarvis would have Trustees that would be owed money?
Was this a common occurance? And the amount seems huge for 1855

Barbara

[LesleyB]

Hi BarbR

Can you set the scene a little please? Where did the main person and his wife live? In England somewhere? Or the others "in the said County"? The only Ticehurst I'm seeing in a Google search is in East Sussex... does that fit?

Was this a document downloaded from Scotlands People or TNA, or have you come across it elsewhere? If from SP or TNA, what is the name of the document? Who is the main person mentioned who was the husband of Sarah Jarvis?

Are any of the people mentioned known to you? I guess what I am hoping for is a little family background. e.g. do you know who Sarah Jarvis is..parents, place of birth etc?

Reason I ask is that I came across a document for one of my lot: the wife was from a reasonably well off family, so there was money involved, but as she was in an asylum and probably not therefore considered able to look after her own affairs, she had trustees.

Best wishes
Lesley

[BarbR]

Hi Lesley,

I posted this in in England because it is from East Sussex, as you say.

The document is the Will of my GGG grandfather Thomas Jarvis who died 1878 that I sent to the Probate office in York for.

Sarah was his second wife, haven't been able to find a cert for this marriage but she appears in the census from 1861 to 1881 she died 1882, his first wife died 1851. I don't know if she had been married before because I don't have a maiden surname, I guess if I could find out more about her things might be a little clearer.
The Trustees are completely unknown to me. I wondered why a woman would have Trustees - have you come across this before? Maybe it was an English custom and as I said before the amount of money seems very large for the year 1878.

I realise this may remain a mystery, but just thought someone else may have come across something similar or have a better understanding of the trustees and the bond bit.

thanks
Barb

[LesleyB]

Hi Barb

I wondered why a woman would have Trustees - have you come across this before?

I added a bit to my post above later, explaining the one example of this I'd seen, but the example above was in Scotland so things may be a bit different.
Do you think either or both "John Noakes of Ticehurst ...Farmer and Edmund Hilder of Rye" may be relatives of Sarah the wife?

Sarah was his second wife, haven't been able to find a cert for this marriage but she appears in the census from 1861 to 1881 she died 1882, his first wife died 1851. I don't know if she had been married before because I don't have a maiden surname, I guess if I could find out more about her things might be a little clearer.

Where were they in the census years? What County? In a town? A farm? What is Sarah's approx year of birth? Place of birth?

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Is this her in 1881 (from LDS site)?

Dale Hill, Ticehurst, Sussex, England
Sarah JARVIS Head W Female aged 78 b. Burwash, Sussex, England Annuitant
William JARVIS Brother U Male 13 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Grocer
Charlotte STANDEN Servant U Female 59 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Housekeeper Dom

- if so, that "brother" William seems awffy young. I wonder if it is a mistranscription? ("brother" may be 73 maybe and a brother-in-law???)

[LesleyB]

Guessing now - might this be our Mr Noakes? Or the next generation maybe? (from LDS site)

Gravellpitt, Ticehurst, Sussex, England
John NOAKES Head M Male 59 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Farmer 470 Acres Employing 15 Men 5 Boys
Charlotte NOAKES Wife M Female 55 Bodiam, Sussex, England Farmers Wife
Henry J.J. NOAKES Son U Male 25 Ticehurst, Sussex, England armers Son
Kate NOAKES Daur U Female 22 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Farmers Daughter
Bertha NOAKES Daur U Female 19 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Farmers Daughter
Ellen Ada NOAKES Daur U Female 16 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Farmers Daughter
Robert Cecil NOAKES Son U Male 10 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Farmers Son
Ellen CARLEY Servant U Female 23 Peasmarsh, Sussex, England Servant Domestic
Annie RELF Servant U Female 21 Hawkhurst, Kent, England Servant Domestic
Chas. NOAKES Visitor M Male 63 Wadhurst, Sussex, England Farmer
Mary Ann NOAKES Visitor M Female 59 Bodiam, Sussex, England Farmers Wife
Edith NOAKES Visitor M Female 20 Tramfield, Sussex, England Farmers Daughter

[LesleyB]

Might Thomas have taken a loan from these chaps to further business interests, buy land or similar? What did he do for a living?

Whereas by a bond dated the fifth day of March one thousand eight hundred and fifty five

Any chance of getting hold of the orginal bond referred to in the will which may explain a bit more of the reasons or background?

[LesleyB]

Ah ha....is this them in 1861 with Thomas as a farmer? If so, probably reasonably well off.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... hurst.html
Enumeration District 2b
Civil Parish of Ticehurst, Eccl. District of Ticehurst
Folio 23 Page 8
37,,1,Thomas Jarvis,Head,M,60,,Farmer 220 Acr Emp 8 Lab 4b,Ticehurst Sussex,,
Sarah Jarvis,Wife,M,,57,,Burwash Sussex,,
William Jarvis,Brothr,U,50,,Accountant,Ticehurst Sussex,,
Fanny Finn,Visitr,M,,51,Tailors Wife,Burwash Sussex,,
Mary Colebrook,Servnt,U,,23,General Servt,Lamberhurst Kent,

and also there:
98,Gravelpit,1,John Noakes,Head,M,39,,Farmer 490 Acr Empl 13 Lab 7b,Ticehurst Sussex,,
Charlotte Noakes,Wife,M,,35,Farmers Wife,Bodiam Sussex,,
Henry J. Noakes,Son,,5,,Farmers Son,Ticehurst Sussex,,
Cate Noakes,Dau,,,3,Farmers Dau,Ticehurst Sussex,,