Narrowing Down Results - HELP

[Andy]

I have a Bessie Taylor born 1902 in Rochdale. I've the family in the 1911 census, so know that the parents supposedly married around 1890, I also have the family in 1901 showing that both parents were born in Rochdale but the eldest son, Ernest, was born in Oldham. And have George and Bessie in 1891 in Oldham.

The parents, George Taylor was born about 1865-ish and the wife Bessie Ellen about 1870.

I've got a fair idea about George's parents, but despite my best efforts can't narrow down far enough, to be affordable, to be sure about the marriage, to find out Bessie Ellen's maiden name.

Any tricks for English records that I've not worked out.

I've tried a 5 year search either side of 1890 for marriages of George Taylor (and varients) to Elizabeth's, Elizabeth Ellen's, Bessie's and Bessie Ellen's. There are too many to order at £9.25 a pop.

There are a few Oldham Marriages for George Taylor's with no other names, but no other marriages for Elizabeth's, Elizabeth Ellen's, Bessie's and Bessie Ellen's in (I suppose) the Rochdale area that match.

I even tried given name searches for all Elizabeth Ellen's and Bessie Ellen's born around 1870 in Rochdale and cross referencing against George Taylor marriages. Against the female surnames an astounding 13 matched George Taylor marriages in a 15 year period from 1875 - 1900 (just in case they waited awhile before marrying). At a push - BIG push - 5 may be Bessie Ellen.

Tried Rochdale and Oldham newspapers. NADA

Any other ideas??????

[garibaldired]

Andy,

English birth certificates show the mother's maiden name so is there a birth of a child you could find more easily?


Best wishes,
Meg

[trish1]

Hi Andy

There are 59 Elizabeth Ellens born 1868 - 1872 in the rochdale district. I can't find one who marries a George Taylor. I can find no mention of the Ellen, other than the 1891 census. (do wonder if Bessie's mother was an Ellen as she also gave that name to her first daughter).

I looked at the Lancashire BDM site - which is a little more user friendly than gro indexes
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ The coverage isn't 100% but for Oldham and Rochford it is close.

the only marriage found at the right time in the Rochdale or Oldham districts seems to be this one
TAYLOR George SLINGER Elizabeth Rochdale, St Albans Rochdale CE44/2/271
I then found Elizabeth Slinger in 1881 born Rochdale aged 11 parents John and Mary A Slinger. Family living Castleton
In 1871 she is listed as Eliza.

I'm not so confident of this one that I would rush out and buy the certificate and as mentioned by Meg started to check the children. On the Lancashire BDM some births have the mothers maiden name - in particular those at OLDHAM

1892 two Ernest Taylors, mother Booth or Wilcock 1891 one Ernest Taylor mother OLDHAM - none seem to have married George Taylor.
There is only one suitable Ellen - born 1894 at Rochdale but no maiden name on the list - If you think it is the only possible Ellen, this may be the best possibility.

Alternatively is it possible to check the church register for the marriage at St Albans - I have memories of this sometimes being possible as an alternative to buying a certificate?

Trish

[garibaldired]

St Alban's church Rochdale closed in 1971 so the records will be either at the Lancashire record office or the Local Studies unit at Manchester library....I think!
Looking here http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scrip ... mentID=464
gives some tips. Not sure how useful but it seems family search beta might help?

Meg

[Andy]

Thanks for all the help.

Meg, are you sure that the childrens' birth certificates would give the mother's maiden name? I thought this didn't start until the Third Quarter of 1911. Unfortunately I don't know of any children born after this.

Trish, I've been through every variation of search to try to find possible maiden names, including The Lancashire Parish Clerk site at http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ it's another great site but didn't yield anything helpful (in this case).

Unfortunately Bessie Ellen died in 1920 so even that record won't be of any help.

I've started ploughing through post 1983 deaths for any of the children that may have lasted that long (these records would give the mother's maiden name - if known). But it's alot of ploughing!!!!! And even more back tracking especially for daughters who may have married.

I'm going to crack this - or NOT - but, either way, I can look forward to FINDING the right name and feeling smug or I don't find the name but still feel smug because I've tried my best - and then some!

Cheers M'Dears

Andy

[SarahND]

Hi Andy,

Meg, are you sure that the childrens' birth certificates would give the mother's maiden name? I thought this didn't start until the Third Quarter of 1911. Unfortunately I don't know of any children born after this.

English birth records are one of the only ways to find out the name of the mother. I have seen them way back to the 1840s, all with mother's maiden name given.

All the best,
Sarah

[nelmit]

Andy,

Where were George and Bessy living in 1911 and did they have children born between 1901 - 1911?

Regards,
Annette

[Andy]

George and Bessie were living in Rochdale in 1911 they had a few children born after 1901:

Bessie 1902
Lily 1906
Joseph 1907

Another daughter, Eliza, must have died between 1901 and 1911 but I can't find any likely candidates in the deaths!

[garibaldired]

Andy,

As Sarah says English birth certificates do have the mother's maiden name on them. The indices only include the mother's maiden name from the third quarter of 1911.

Best wishes,
Meg

[AnneM]

Hi Andy

This is not easy at all. I would be inclined to take a punt on the Lily Taylor born in the June quarter of 1905 in Rochdale, Volume 8e page 40. Having looked for all the births this is (as long as her first name was spelled Lily) the only obvious one for that name in Rochdale. She would therefore be 5 at the census which would be right.

There is an Elizabeth Ethel born Rochdale in 1901 and an Elizabeth Ellen born Rochdale in 1902 but she should be younger than 'Bessie' on the census so I'm not sure about either of those.

The BC will indeed give you mother's maiden name (assuming it is the right one!!) and from there you can find the marriage. I've had a trawl around the lancashire online parish clerk to no avail. They may have been Methodists, Baptists etc.

It's a bit of a gamble going for Lily's birth but I think that if you don't try that one you are possibly not going to move it on. The other names have too many options.

Good luck

Anne (who is also researching in Lancashire at the moment)

P.S. I take it you think his parents are George and Mary and that he has a younger brother called Elijah.