GGG grandfather found by chance

[JimM]

Thought I'd share this

My only fully English Line is Skinner from Northumberland.
I had found my gg grandfather George Skinner born illegitimate in Lesbury 1859, his mother was Elizabeth Skinner.
With no clues to the father I had accepted the fact that this was a brick wall I would probably never break down.

Then while browsing Northumberland sites I came across Alnmouth manuscripts... there is a sample page from Alnwick Union; Bastardy Orders Register (no PC sensitivity in those days).

To my amazement my Elizabeth was at the bottom of the page... and the father is named as Robert Telford a farmer at Low Learchild who was ordered to pay 1/6 per week. It didn't take much searching to find him on the English census.

Turns out he was nearly twenty years older than Elizabeth (I've omitted my thoughts here in case anyone is easily offended)

And to top it all....... Robert Telford was born in Scotland

I have added Robert Telford to my tree... but I'm still not sure how I feel about this (does he really belong there?)


Jim

[Rab]

That is an amazing find Jim. I'm in the same situation with my maternal grandfather who was illigitimate so know exactly how you feel about the brick wall. I wouldn't give many people any hope of demolishing that wall so it's fantastic to read that someone has actually done it.

I didn't know that these records existed. That really is a great source.

Well done.

Rab

[emanday]

First of all, wonderful piece of luck, even if the circumstances of his birth were what they were.

....snipped....
I have added Robert Telford to my tree... but I'm still not sure how I feel about this (does he really belong there?)
....snipped....

Although your initial reaction might be not to include him, he is an ancestor, no matter the circumstances. If he were mine I would still regard him as part of my genealogical line.

[Tracey]

My Great Grandfathers sister had an illigitimate child - fine we all have lots of them in our trees but it does get you thinking.
I have bored everyone with mention of the 100, s of family letters anyway these letters explain the circumstance......... in short it seems she worked for a man who was 22 years older than she and her family were concerned for her "safety" and wanted her out of there "before the same thing happened again" - her getting pregnant. He was a widow with children and spent time in and out of an asylum where he eventually died. She did go to a solicitor to get money for her childs upkeep which she got after years of fighting. I think the settlement was a one off payment of about £9.00 which came too late as she had to put her child in an orphange because she couldnt afford to pay her childs keep elsewhere. Despite the age gap and what others thought of him she obviously loved him and she always writes with fondness and sadness about him. Without the letters i wouldnt have known or even thought of looking for this child, but it does get your mind working overtime as to the whys etc.

[emanday]

Good point, Tracey.

Who knows the actual circumstances of these things?

Jim,

Maybe Robert and Elizabeth's story was one of true romance, just like Tracey's relative.

I'd lean towards "benefit of the doubt" here, but then I am an old romantic

[joette]

My granny had two "love" children.I know the father of one-he is named on her Birth Certificate but as to the other?
All I know was she loved him very much but there was an ipediment of some sort re marriage.My Granny never kept much close to her chest but this is one secret which she took to the grave although I have a sneaky suspicion my Mum knows something-not all mother/daughter-in-laws are at loggerheads!
I have some suspicions but nothing concrete- I even have a story about my suspicions-all names changed to protect the innocent!

[Russell]

I agree with you Mary

We'll never know the circumstances.
Sometimes a widower employed a lass as his housekeeper then went on to marry her and have a second family. If her father didn't approve of the marriage she could end up with an illegitimate child and no job, then be disowned because of the child - Catch 22. Women couldn't win then.

If a father was named for an illigitimate child it was a pretty sure thing that he was the man responsible. In smaller communities everybody knew everyone else's business. So his name really should be part of a tree since he is part of you genetic heritage. Only problem is persuading some of the family tree programmes to accept the information.

Just feel sorry for your future genealogist trying to figure out who fathered which child. They're doomed to confront a bigger, more impenetrable brick wall than some we face now.

Russell

[Rab]

I've yet to find out who my grandfather's dad was. There was no mention on his birth certificate. He was adopted before he was a year old and it's his adoptive parents that were cited on his marriage and death records.

By chance I managed to track down someone from the family of his natural mother- which however distant it feels are my family too. Someone from that family had created a very extensive family tree which they very kindly gave to me. The strange thing was that my grandfather wasn't included. It would seem no one in his natural family knew he existed.

It's a very intriguing mystery but I don't think I'll ever find out who his father was. Jim's tale though does give me a glimmer of hope where there was none before. Motto is that we should never give up no matter how difficult the task looks.

I agree emanday. I'd still include the ancestor in the tree. If you know who they are then they are part of the line.

[emanday]

...snipped...
Just feel sorry for your future genealogist trying to figure out who fathered which child. They're doomed to confront a bigger, more impenetrable brick wall than some we face now.
...snipped...

Gosh, that's a point

[margaretmccue]

Hello. reading your letters about including names of fathers if found.
thanks to Justjean and Jack I found out about my great grandmothers
parents. what puzzles me is, on my GR Grans Marriage cert it say father
James Gordon journeyman shoemaker deceased. mother Mary Gordon M.S Seaton yet on the 1841 census shes down as Mary Seaton. she did get maried in 1842. but not to James Gordon, I would have to inclued him on the tree, because my mothers name was Jane Gordon Anderson.
and as you say any one following the tree later will wonder where her name came from? believe me this was only one of my brick wall . but I thought you might like to know. cheers margaret