Help with place name

[AndrewP]

Hi Geoff,

I don't know if following the trails of the family will lead you anywhere from their births or baptisms:

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Date        Name                        Father                 Mother                Parish   County
19/06/1817  Alexander MacDougall        Alexander MacDougall   Isabel MacGilliwie    Kenmore, Perthshire
20/11/1818  Janet MacDougall            Alexander MacDougall   Isabel MacGilliwie    Kenmore, Perthshire
25/02/1820  Patrick MacDougall          Alexander MacDougall   Isabel MacGillewie    Kenmore, Perthshire
03/11/1821  Duncan MacDougall           Alexander MacDougall   Isabel MacGillewie    Kenmore, Perthshire
21/10/1823  Robert MacDougall           Alexander MacDougall   Isabell MacGillewie   Kenmore, Perthshire
16/08/1825  Margaret MacDougall         Alexander Mac Dougall  Isabel Mac Gilliwee   Kenmore, Perthshire
05/03/1828  John MacDougall             Alexander Mac Dougall  Isabell Mac Gilliwiw  Kenmore, Perthshire
20/05/1830  Ann MacDougall              Alexander Mac Dougall  Isabel Mac Gillewie   Kenmore, Perthshire
09/03/1835  Isabella Simpson McDougall  Alexr. McDougall       Isabella McGillwie    Dumbarton, Dunbartonshire

With a surname like Isabe(l)'s, spelling can be a stretch for the imagination.

Looking at John's 1828 birth, the obscure spelling "Mac Gilliewiw" is a mis-indexing, probably a typo meant to be "Mac Gilliewie". I had a look at the online image, and read it as "MacGillievie".

The family can be found in Dumbarton in the 1841 census.
Alexander 60, Alexander 25, Isabella 40, Peter 20, Duncan 15, Robert 15, John 13, Janet 20, Margaret 15, Ann 11, and Isabella 6 (also George Ross 25 and William McLean 15).
I assume the following:

• Peter and Patrick should be the same person - these names are regularly interchanged.
• Isabella, age 40 is probably nearer to 44 and rounded down to the nearest 5 or 10 as the adult ages were in the 1841 census.

On sorting the order from the 1841 census:

• Alexander 60
• Isabella 40
  • Alexander 25
  • Janet 20
  • Peter 20
  • Duncan 15
  • Robert 15
  • Margaret 15
  • John 13
  • Ann 11
  • Isabella 6

Alexander and Isabella's marriage can be found in 1816 in Logierait.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello Andrew

I've already seen those names except for Isabella Simpson McDougall, Dumbarton, Dunbartonshire. If the family moved to Dumbarton then I'll see if I can trace some through the censuses.
Trying to trace the Mac Gillewie name through SP isn't easy given the number of spelling variations.

I might get to the bottom of this one day, thanks for your interest.

Regards

Geoff

[Russell]

Hi Geoff

Don't rule out McGillivrie as a possibility either. There are over 25 possible spellings for the name and there are quite a few in your area. We discovered a relative who was listed as McGilvray but his gaelic record showed him as McGilvra on the gaelic speaking Isle of Colonsay. It all depended on the person Registering the birth/death/marriage and what they thought it sounded like.

Russell

[AndrewP]

I've already seen those names except for Isabella Simpson McDougall, Dumbarton, Dunbartonshire. If the family moved to Dumbarton then I'll see if I can trace some through the censuses.

Hi Geoff,

It may be that I edited the 1841 census info into the post above while you were typing your reply. In my mind this has to be the same family in Dumbarton, that had come from Kenmore.

Here's one to consider - it doesn't come with any promises.

• Death 1876 Glasgow, Isabella McDougall, aged 71, widow of John McDougall, spirit merchant.
  
  In the 1841 census, Alexander McDougall was described as an innkeeper. If he was more of a publican, then he could have been described as a spirit merchant. The death was registered by a niece - I am suggesting that she may have got her uncle's first name wrong (not uncommon on a death certificate). The surname of the niece, and the maiden surname of Isabella MacDougall was given as McGillivray.

As I say it is a promise of nothing, but it could be worth considering.

All the best,

AndrewP

[AndrewP]

Hi Geoff,

Following up Isabella Simpson McDougall:

• She married Thomas Clark in 1864 in Edinburgh. Note - she is given only as I S McDougall.
• She died in 1914 in Dundee.

Her mother's maiden surname is given as McGilliwie on the 1914 death certificate. The spelling is less certain on the marriage certificate as the handwriting is difficult to read.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Geoff Rogers]

Hi Geoff

Don't rule out McGillivrie as a possibility either. There are over 25 possible spellings for the name and there are quite a few in your area. We discovered a relative who was listed as McGilvray but his gaelic record showed him as McGilvra on the gaelic speaking Isle of Colonsay. It all depended on the person Registering the birth/death/marriage and what they thought it sounded like.

Russell

Thanks Russell I'll bear it in mind.

[Geoff Rogers]

Thanks Andrew

Between your message and editing I did find a transcription of the 1841 Census. I now know where the 1830 Ann was in 1841 thanks to your Isabella birth clue. I wouldn't have found that without your help.

Now to find Ann in the 1851 census, updated: I think I've found the 1830 Ann at Dunbarney, Strathearn.

Many Thanks
Geoff

[AndrewP]

Hi Geoff,

I see another possibility for Ann in Kilchrenan & Dalavich, Argyll, in 1851:

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Alexr McDougal   71  widower  innkeeper
Alexr McDougal   31
Janet McDougal   30
Ann McDougal     20

The following criteria support this as being your family group:

• All of the above were born in Kenmore.
• Alexander (senior) has the same occupation as shown in the 1841 census.
• The ages of all three 'children' are a good match for their birth years.
• Alexander (senior)'s age is a good match for that given in the 1841 census.

The united parishes of Kilchrenan & Dalavich are in the County of Argyll, about midway between Inverary and Oban, based around the middle section of Loch Awe. Their house is transcribed on Ancestry as Upper Senachan.

It can be seen on the following map as Upper Sonachan - click here for the map.
If you go to the bottom centre of the map, you will see where Loch Awe goes off the bottom of the map. Keep clicking on that part of the map until you can read the place names. Then move up the map, up the east cost of Loch Awe. You will see Sonachan House, and then Upper Sonachan.

It can also be seen on a modern Ordnance Survey map - OS map showing Upper Sonachan

All the best,

AndrewP

[rossm]

Hi,

I'm going to complicate matters further by saying I've found a third Ann MacDougall in the 1851 census:

Parish Number: 331
Civil Parish: Balquhidder
County: Perthshire
Address: Strathyre Vill
Household Members:
Name Age Occ Where Born
Hugh Mcdougall 47 Head Carter Kenmore
Catherine Mcdougall 47 Wife Kenmore
Ann Mcdougall 21 Daur Kenmore
Hugh Mcdougall 12 Son Kenmore
Margaret Mcdougall 8 Daur Balquhidder
Dugald Mcdougall 3 Son Balquhidder
Jean Mcdougall 3 Mo Daur Balquhidder

So this almost certainly the 1828 Ann, born at Croftin... to Hugh and Catherine Frazer.
It looks like Andrew has found the 1830 Ann, born in Kenmore to Alexander and Isabel MacGilewie.
You, meanwhile, have found a previously unknown Ann, born in Kenmore and living/working in Dunbarney in 1851.

Now, if it was me, I'd be inclined to say that this previously unknown Ann is your relative, if only for the fact that she gets married to William in 1853 in Cargill. It's not so much of a stretch of the imagination for a young servant girl from Dunbarney to meet a young lad from Cargill, as it is for someone from Balquhidder or Lochaweside. Unfortunately, if this is correct, then there's still another baptism record out there waiting to be found...

Regards
Ross

[rossm]

Hi,

And having complicated matters slightly, I'm going to hopefully uncomplicate them slightly.

It looks like the Ann MacDougall I found in the 1851 census in Strathyre can be found in 1861 living with her sister Margaret and brother-in-law Donald Malloch in Little Dunkeld. Margaret and Donald were married in 1858 in Kenmore. If you can find their marriage record you'll be able to confirm whether Margaret's parents were Hugh MacDougall and Catherine Frazer. This would then rule out the 1828 baptism as being your Ann.

Hope this helps a bit more

Ross