Sunter, Lunn, Wallace, Bruce, Watson, Morris, Peddie

[nelmit]

I may need to re-think the David Sunter/Margaret Andrew bit.

no wonder i'm confused

Yup for what should be an easy surname to follow it's really hard!!

The way I see it is -

From the info you've given (and I'm assuming you've looked at marriages on SP)-

Alexander Sunter married Margaret Morris and he gives his parents as Robert Sunter, a shoemaker, and Janet Peddie who married in 1864.

On Robert's marriage entry he gives his parents as William Sunter, a weaver, and Elizabeth Christie. There is a death of an Elizabeth Christie/Sunter at Kirkcaldy in 1860. Is Robert's mother shown as deceased on his marriage entry?

I think this may be your Robert in 1861 living at Kirkcaldy (yes I did get mixed up earlier about the occupations)-

William Sunter 61 b Kirkcaldy Seaman
Elizabeth Sunter 24
Robert Sunter 22 shoemaker[/i]

William's occupation of Seaman would explain why he isn't with the family in 1841 and 1851. Are you sure Robert gave his father's occupation as a weaver on his marriage entry?

There is a William Sunter death at 1883 at Kirkcaldy indexed at SP. I think this is the one who is living with Robert. I would think it worth 5 credits to look and see if he was the widower of Elizabeth Christie.

Regards,
Annette

[Andrew Sunter]

I may need to re-think the David Sunter/Margaret Andrew bit.

no wonder i'm confused

Yup for what should be an easy surname to follow it's really hard!!

The way I see it is -

From the info you've given (and I'm assuming you've looked at marriages on SP)-

Alexander Sunter married Margaret Morris and he gives his parents as Robert Sunter, a shoemaker, and Janet Peddie who married in 1864.

On Robert's marriage entry he gives his parents as William Sunter, a weaver, and Elizabeth Christie. There is a death of an Elizabeth Christie/Sunter at Kirkcaldy in 1860. Is Robert's mother shown as deceased on his marriage entry?

I think this may be your Robert in 1861 living at Kirkcaldy (yes I did get mixed up earlier about the occupations)-

William Sunter 61 b Kirkcaldy Seaman
Elizabeth Sunter 24
Robert Sunter 22 shoemaker[/i]

William's occupation of Seaman would explain why he isn't with the family in 1841 and 1851. Are you sure Robert gave his father's occupation as a weaver on his marriage entry?

There is a William Sunter death at 1883 at Kirkcaldy indexed at SP. I think this is the one who is living with Robert. I would think it worth 5 credits to look and see if he was the widower of Elizabeth Christie.

Regards,
Annette

that nicely sums up where I am at just now. Robert's marriage thing definitely says William Sunter (weaver) and Elizabeth Christie (deceased) as his parents. maybe he left his life at sea when Elizabeth died?

I have the death record of William in 1883. it shows he is 77. it is signed by Robert (son) and gives Williams parents as John and Janet. its very blurred so the occupation of John is hard to discern and it doesn't show Janet's maiden name, it just says MS _____. as i say its very blurred it does appear to indicate this is our lad as his spouse looks like it could very well be Elizabeth Christie.

confusingly, again, if he died at 77 there is no birth for a William in 1806. maybe not born in Scotland!?

[LesleyB]

Hi Andrew

confusingly, again, if he died at 77 there is no birth for a William in 1806. maybe not born in Scotland!?

There are many reasons why a birth pre-1855 may not be found - it may depend on how well the OPRs were kept for the area, if they were kept at all, if they have survived, if the family were CoS, and many other factors.

Best wishes
Lesley

[nelmit]

I was hoping his mother's name was Janet as I think this may be her in 1841 with William's son Alexander from FREECEN just 2 pages on from Elizabeth -

Piece: SCT1841/399 Place: Abbotshall -Fife Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Abbotshall Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 4 Page: 13
Address: High Street, Linktown.

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
SUNTER Janet F 71 Independent Fife
SUNTER Alexander M 9 Fife
CURL Robert M 60 Linen H.L.W Journeyman Outside Census County (1841)


According to census records William was born at Kirkcaldy around 1800.

A possible for William's parents??

JOHN SUNTER Pedigree

Marriages:
Spouse: JANET PATTIE
Marriage:
13 JAN 1800 Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland

This couple have 3 girls indexed at the IGI but no boys.

Regards,
Annette

PS If you contact SP they will send you a better copy of William's death entry in 1883. Does it show Robert as 'present' or does it give an address for him?

[Andrew Sunter]

PS If you contact SP they will send you a better copy of William's death entry in 1883. Does it show Robert as 'present' or does it give an address for him?

no Robert isn't present. there's an address for him in Dundee (Union Street it looks like)

[nelmit]

PS If you contact SP they will send you a better copy of William's death entry in 1883. Does it show Robert as 'present' or does it give an address for him?

no Robert isn't present. there's an address for him in Dundee (Union Street it looks like)

Excellent! That confirms you have the right father for your Robert.

Regards,
Annette

[Andrew Sunter]

Nelmit and everyone else. thanks for your help once more.

I know that the next generation down i.e William's parents are called Janet and John but i cant be sure that it is the John and Janet Pattie that you identified earlier (i suspect it is but i'd like to be positive). I guess I'm just being cautious having made a silly mistake before.

any tips/hints as to how i can be sure and then take the step beyond them?

A few weeks ago I wasn't that interested but now I really want to see this as far as possible. it really is addictive.

PS - a few posts back i said that i couldn't discern John's occupation from William's death but having had a closer look it now looks like he too was a weaver - a hand loom weaver to be precise.

[Andrew Sunter]

there is a problem with Janet Pattie being the same Janet as in the 1841 census. From the wedding announcement i see Janet's father is called James and there is only one Janet Pattie born to a James (on Scotland's People) and that was in 1784 - making her 56/57 in 1841 rather than 71!

[Andrew Sunter]

in the course of all of this I've discovered that my grandfather had 2 siblings (a brother and a sister) who died when he was very young. the sister was Agnes and the brother was called Robert which is also my brother's name (my mum assures me this is a total coincidence as her and my dad had never heard of grandads brother). seems weird that he never mentioned it to my parents when my bro was born. that would lead me to think that he didn't know that he'd had a younger brother (and presumably he never knew about his older sister either) who had died. that seems strange.

would it have been usual in those days (early 1900s) to just not speak about a death like that?

in this day and age it seems bizarre but maybe they were just more stoic then. death in childhood was a lot more common so maybe they just go on with it.

I'd like to have know about my great uncle Robert and great aunt Agnes but it's hard to blame anyone for me not knowing.

[Andrew Sunter]

After hitting a brick wall going down my dads line I started on my mums side. this is where i got to. I can only find 12 sets of great great great grandparents and there should obviously be 16. more brick walls!


Great grandparents (1)

Alexander Sunter, a miner born on 15 May 1876 in Dundee. He died in 1949 of a strangulated hernia and gangrene.
Margaret Morris, born on 10 April 1875 in Broughty Ferry. She died in 1952 of a brain haemorrhage.

Married on 17 October 1898 in Dundee.

At the time of the 1891 census, Alexander was 14 years old and lived at 6 Union Street, Dundee. The census says that he was living with his parents, Robert and Margaret, but Alexander’s mother was Janet Peddie. I suspect the census may be wrong.

Great grandparents (2)F

Thomas Lunn, a ploughman born on 20 January 1884 in Orwell. He died in 1959 of acute myocarditis.
Christina Johnston Bruce, born on 1 October 1879 in Hatchbank. She died in 1951 of ulceration and cellulitis of the legs.

Married on 8 January 1909 in Kinross.

At the time of the 1891 census, Thomas was 7 years old and lived in Kinglassie with parents John and Catherine, sisters Isabella (13), Charlotte (8), Catherine (4) and Maggie (2).

At the time of the 1881 census, Christina was 1 year old and lived at Carsegour, Kinross, with parents Thomas and Betsy, sister Betsy (3) and brother Thomas (1).

Great grandparents (3):-

N/K

Great grandparents (4):-

John Wallace, a gardener, born on 8 March 1882 in Creich.
Elisabeth Lister Watson, born on 26 May 1873 in Kirkcaldy. She died in 1952 of chronic bronchitis.

Married on 29 May 1905 in Kirkcaldy.

At the time of the 1891 census, John was 9 years old and lived in the village of Brunton, in Creich with parents David and Helen.

At the time of the 1881 census, Elizabeth was 7 years old and lived at 150 Links Street, Abbotshall with parents David and Elizabeth, sisters Isabella (14), Margaret (11), brothers John (6) and Neil (1).

Great great grandparents (1)

Robert Sunter, a shoemaker, born sometime around 1839 in Kirkcaldy. He died in 1899 of a brain haemorrhage.
Janet or Jessie Peddie, born around 1839. She died in 1896 of cirrhosis of the liver.

Married on 26 February 1864 in Dundee.

At the time of the 1851 census, Robert was 11 years old and lived at Abbotshall High Street with mother Elizabeth, and sister Elizabeth (14).

Great great grandparents (2)

Thomas Morris, a lorry driver born on 19 August 1849 in Barry. He died in 1906 of brain softening.
Annie Tarbet born in Dunnichen around 1849. She died in 1935 after falling and breaking her neck.

Married on 5 June 1869 in Dunnichen

At the time of the 1851 census, Thomas was less than a year old and lived with his mother Jane in Barry.

Annie was 3 years old and lived in Dunnichen with parents John and Betsy, sisters Jessie (19), Elizabeth (14), Helen (7 months), brothers George (17) and Alexander (6).

Great great grandparents (3)

John Lunn, a shepherd, born on 8 August 1858 in Stow. He died in 1926 of apoplexy.
Catherine Brown, born on 16 October 1860 in Auchtertool. She died in 1944 of myocarditis.

Married on 28 November 1879 in Kinglassie

At the time of the 1861 census, Catherine was 6 months old and lived at Great North Road, Beath, with parents Andrew and Isabella, brothers James (5), Andrew (4), David (3) and John (2).

Great great grandparents (4)

Thomas Bruce, a shepherd born in Kinross around 1850. He died in 1912 of locomotor ataxia.
Betsy Wells born on 8 February 1853 in Kilspondie. She died in 1951 of arterio sclerosis.

Married on 26 July 1875 in Kinross.

Great great grandparents (5 & 6)

N/K

Great great grandparents (7)

David Wallace, a shoemaker born on 26 June 1842 in Ceres. He died in 1923 of old age.
Helen Watson Hay, born in Criech around 1841. She died in 1918 of arterio sclerosis.

Married on 4 December 1874 in Creich

Great great grandparents (8)

David Watson, a fireman born in Abbotshall around 1847.
Elizabeth Lister born on 3 August 1847 in West Wemyss. She died in 1916 of chronic bronchitis

Married on 14 January 1869 in Dysart.

Great great great grandparents (1)

William Sunter, a weaver and Elizabeth Christie. She was born in Dunfermline around 1804.

Married on 4 March 1922 in Kirkcaldy.

Great great great grandparents (2)

David Peddie, a flax dresser and Jane Harris.

Great great great grandparents (3)

James Morris, a labourer and Jane Adam who married on 9 November 1848 in Forfar.

Great great great grandparents (4)

John Tarbet, born in Dunnichen around 1810, and Betsy Porter born in Aberlemno around 1810.

Great great great grandparents (5)

Thomas Lunn, a shepherd and Joan Vallance who married on 25 April 1847 in Edrom.

Great great great grandparents (6):-

Andrew Brown, a ploughman born in Inverkeithing around 1835.
Isabella Brown born in Fife around 1836.

Married on 11 November 1853 in Beath.

Great great great grandparents (7)

Thomas Bruce, a farm servant and Christian Johnstone

Great great great grandparents (8)

James Wells, a farm servant and Betsy Johnstone

Great great great grandparents (9 to 12)

N/K

Great great great grandparents (13)

David Wallace, a labourer and Jane Eaddie

Great great great grandparents (14)

George Bowman Hay, a seedsman born in Creich around 1811, and Ann Mitchell

Great great great grandparents (15)

Andrew Watson, linen weaver and Margaret Christopher.

Great great great grandparents (16)

John Lister, a miner and Isabella Lessels