Help with place name

[Geoff Rogers]

I have a baptism certificate for Ann McDougall of Kenmore in 1828 and the mother has the following after her name - CROFTINLAY then a small space then what looks like AW.
Perhaps someone local to Kenmore might recognise the place. Interestingly on the 1871 census her place of birth is given as Lourgton or something similar. As the gallery is broken I can't post a picture. I was wondering whether the place was a croft in someplace.

Thanks

Geoff Rogers

[nelmit]

I have a baptism certificate for Ann McDougall of Kenmore in 1828 and the mother has the following after her name - CROFTINLAY then a small space then what looks like AW.
Perhaps someone local to Kenmore might recognise the place. Interestingly on the 1871 census her place of birth is given as Lourgton or something similar. As the gallery is broken I can't post a picture. I was wondering whether the place was a croft in someplace.

Thanks

Geoff Rogers

Hi Geoff,

If you go to this map of around 1828 http://www.nls.uk/maps/atlas/thomson/531.html

Choose the north west section and zoom in on Kenmore. Follow the road south of the loch and you will see Lurglonimen ? and Croftinarlag or something like that.

Maybe worth a wee browse around the area. Were the family living at Kenmore in 1841?

I see her mother's name was Fraser. A look at the 1841 shows Frasers at Croftantyan as transcribed at Ancestry.

Regards,
Annette

[AndrewP]

A current map shows Lurglomand and Croftmartaig.

OS map showing Lurglomand and Croftmartaig

All the best,

AndrewP

[Geoff Rogers]

Thanks for the links to the maps. I've found a place on the west side of Loch Tay called Croftlayan. That's the closest name to my document so many thanks.

Geoff Rogers

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello

I have now re-visited this topic as I've now uploaded an image (AM_1828) to a folder called Geoff25 in the Gallery.

link to image AM_1828

I would appreciate any help with the place name which is Croftintay ?? possibly aw. I think the faint horizontal line cuts through both t's.

Looking at old maps I can't find a match. It may just mean, a croft in Tay.

Thanks
Geoff

[nelmit]

I think it may have been a place name.

I found a number of families (including a couple of McDougalls) living at the address Croftantyan in 1841 - I'm off to see if I can find that on a map.

Regards,
Annette

[nelmit]

On this map http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400160 on the west side of the loch is, what appears to be, a place called Croftlayan (a slightly later map shows it as Croftintyan). Following the route of the 1841 census I think this maybe the same place

Piece: SCT1841/360 Place: Kenmore -Perth Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: Kenmore Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Kenmore
Folio: 6 Page: 3
Address: Croftantyan

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MCDOUGALL Peter M 50 P. Perth
MCDOUGALL Chirsty F 90 Perth
MCDOUGALL James M 40 Perth
MCDOUGALL Hugh M 15 Perth

Maybe the writing in the document that looks like 'aw' is actually part of the address and is 'an' which would make it Croftintayan.. Very frustrating we can't get an exact match though but the more I see it the more I like it.

Regards,
Annette

[Geoff Rogers]

Thanks Annette

Sorry I've not replied any sooner but I have been laid low by a virus for a while.

Thanks for your efforts, I'll look at your map link.

I've had a look at the map and can see the place you mentioned.

In the 1871 census the same women gave her birthplace as Lourylom ?? See below.


I would imagine the two place names should be near each other but I've found nothing yet.

Kind regards
Geoff

Edited to put the image in the post - AndrewP

[rossm]

Hello,

I'll chuck my hat into the ring with this one and say I was reading the image on your original posting as Croftintayan. However I'm not convinced the y isn't actually a yogh or similar, hence we can't find any consistent modern spelling on a map. My vote for the strongest candidate, based on the baptism record alone, is Croftintygan on the west side of Loch Tay (also variously spelt as Croftilayan, Croftinlayan). Easter Croftintygan can still be found on the modern OS map, just outside Lawers.

However, no placenames on the west side of Loch Tay seem to fit convincingly with the placename in the 1871 census. The tortured reasoning I've come up with is that the census taker has transliterated what he thought was being said to him and perhaps Milton of Lawers has ended up being translated as Lourston. This logic might be even more convincing if your ancestors were Gaelic speakers and the census mannie wasn't.

The link Annette posted to the 1832 Thomson map seems the best bet for finding placenames for the period in question. By the time the OS maps come along in the 1860s, a lot of the placenames around Loch Tay seem to have disappeared. Unfortunately there's a also a lot of 'croftin-' prefixes around in 1832 too!

Cheers

Ross

[Geoff Rogers]

Thanks Ross

The reason I started on this thread is that I have two choices for the birth of my ancestor Ann McDougall, one born in Kenmore (Croftin....) in 1828 to Hugh McDougall and Catherine Frazer, which is the one I've been concentrating on. All the censuses and death ages agree with the 1828 birth. Unfortunately she married before 1855 and died in London, so there's no chance of her parents names.

The other choice is a birth in Kenmore in 1830 to Alexander McDougall and Isabel MacGilewie. I've tried tracing either Ann forward looking at marriages and deaths to see if the mother's name MacGillewie or Frazer appear but have drawn a blank so far.

One other reason I'm looking at this possibility is because my Ann McDougall who married William Sime had a second son named David Alexander McDougall Sime. The David probably comes from his Grandfather David Sime so logic would dictate that Alexander McDougall comes from his other Grandfather. This would mean that the 1830 Ann is my ancestor.

The reason why I'm trying to see if these two place names are closely related seems to be the key to the problem. The 1861 census birthplace name Loury... definately belongs to my Ann. The 1830 birth certificate for the 1830 Ann just mentions Kenmore as her birthplace.

Thanks for looking
Regards
Geoff