Identify Family crest with Motto

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Will M
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Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:45 pm
Location: Kingston, Canada

Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Will M » Sun May 20, 2012 4:30 am

I have come up with some Scottish names that may relate to this family crest and motto on a sword, the motto being
" Major Providentia Fato" the crest is a lion facing left holding a flag pole with flag on top.
The officer (rank of major or higher) was in the Bombay Native Infantry circ 1850's and possibly later. Unfortunately no initials to go on.
Would be greatly appreciated to find out if this is truly a Scottish motto and crest and to which name it belongs. I have not found a name relating to both the crest and motto.
Image

AndrewP
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Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by AndrewP » Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am

Hi Will,

It looks like the answer lies on (your?) question on the Sword Forum. The Sturt family.

A description of the crest looks like the one on this page of the Cracrofts Peerage website.

It could well be a variation of "A Demi-Lion holding a Banner Gules charged with a Rose Argent the Staff and Fringe Or". Translated into more modern terminology: A half lion holding a red banner bearing a white rose and the staff and fringe gold. Translated by me using a dictionary, so could be open to challenge by somebody with knowledge of heraldry.

Gules: a red colour, marked in engraved figures by vertical lines
Argent: silvery white; white (her.)
Or: the tincture gold or yellow, inicated in engraving and chiselling by dots
definitions from Chambers Dictionary

All the best,

AndrewP

Currie
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Currie » Sun May 20, 2012 1:06 pm

Hello Will,

As Andrew has found, the engraving of the lion appears to be the crest of the Sturt family, the sort of thing you put on the family silver. I’m wondering about the motto bit and whether that is for a particular group of Sturt’s or even for just a particular individual. It seems to have a link via the Napier Sturt’s way back to the Napier's..

The Book of Family Crests has the Sturt family listed with a reference to an illustration pl.7 n.27.
http://archive.org/stream/bookfamilycre ... 0/mode/2up

Here’s the illustration, and it’s the lion with the banner, and it has Hayes underneath it for some reason or other.
http://archive.org/stream/bookfamilycre ... 4/mode/2up

Alan

Currie
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Currie » Sun May 20, 2012 2:40 pm

Here’s a connection of the Napier Sturt’s to a senior officer of Bengal Native Infantry.

John Leigh Doyle Sturt was born in Coombe Haye, Somerset, the eighth son of Thomas Lennox Napier Sturt and his wife Jannette. Two of the brothers were; Col. William Milner Neville Sturt, 43rd Native Infantry died at Shahjahanpur, 10th November 1855 and Captain Frederick St. John Sturt, died Meerut 21 May 1841. http://www.godolphins.org.uk/Sturt_Lt.A ... Sturt.html

There’s more about William Milner Neville Sturt here.
http://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/meda ... uxnhbiheo6

Alan

Will M
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:45 pm
Location: Kingston, Canada

Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Will M » Sun May 20, 2012 2:56 pm

Thank-you Andrew and Alen, the motto had me thinking it was not Sturt, but family variations as you say can be the reason. These are great avenues to pursue. :D The swords retailer dates the sword from 1853, but when the East India Co's lion was replaced with the VR in the swords guard I do not know, though the date would help narrow the candidates of ownership.

Will M
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:45 pm
Location: Kingston, Canada

Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Will M » Mon May 21, 2012 3:53 am

The swords date is post 1858-59, thanks to Gordon Byrne who found the only Sturt name in HEIC army lists at the particular date, the owner of the sword is..... Charles Sheppey Sturt - 22nd Regiment of Native Infantry (Bombay) - First Season of Appointment 1858 - Rank in Regiment, Ensign, 11th June 1858 - 22nd NI.
I have yet to find out his service history though I have found many posts for his father who could be considered famous in his time.

Currie
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Location: Australia

Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Currie » Mon May 21, 2012 11:28 am

Hello Will,

I think I previously got my Bombays and my Bengals mixed up but at least he appears to be a close relative.

Captain Sturt, the father, was famous enough, at least in Australia, to make it onto the currency. http://www.australianbanknotes.net/one_ ... /r33_r.jpg

Here’s an obit for the Major-General.

The Times (London, England), Friday, Dec 23, 1910
MAJOR-GENERAL C. S. Sturt.
Major-General Charles Sheppey Sturt, late of the Bombay Infantry, died yesterday at his residence near Barnstaple.
Born in 1838, he served in the Abyssinian Campaign of 1867 and the Burmese Expedition of 1886, and on both occasions was mentioned in despatches. He reached the rank of major-general in 1891 and 18 months later was placed on the unemployed supernumerary list. A man of a singularly generous temperament, he was most popular in the countryside. His hobby was engineering, and he was a member of the Fly Fishers' Club.

The Times (London, England), Monday, Dec 26, 1910
MAJOR-GENERAL STURT.
With reference to the death of Major-General Sturt, announced in The Times on Friday, a correspondent writes:—"He was the second son of the late Captain Charles Sturt, of the 39th Regiment, who was known to fame by his notable explorations in Australia between the years 1828 and 1846. Major-General Charles Sheppey Sturt himself was born near Varraville, in Australia, while his father was conducting from Sydney to Adelaide one of the first of the ‘overland' expeditions. Major-General Sturt inherited in a marked degree his distinguished father's love of natural history and botany and entomology and all kindred studies. These, and all kinds of open-air sport, as well as very neat mechanical and carpentering work, were his favourite pursuits."

The London Gazette should have his promotions but just in case here are some London Gazette entries from various newspapers, date shown is Gazette date.
22 July 1870 – Bombay Army – Late 6th Native Infantry: Lieutenant Charles Sheppey Sturt to be captain.
17 November 1874 – Late 6th Native Infantry Captain Charles Sheppey Sturt to be major.
17 December 1886 – Bombay Infantry, to be Colonel – Lieut. Col. and Col. in the Army Charles Sheppey Sturt.

Armorial Families has an entry specific to Charles Sheppey Sturt
http://archive.org/stream/armorialfamil ... 8/mode/2up

“Crest — On a wreath of the colours, a demi-lion rampant gules holding a banner also gules, charged with a rose argent, staff and fringe or.”

All the best,
Alan

Will M
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:45 pm
Location: Kingston, Canada

Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Will M » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:15 am

Thank-you Alan, just checked this forum again and found all this great info you posted. I did manage to get a doc with some info and a picture of his portrait, in uniform wearing his medals. great to put a face to the sword.
Image
Image

Currie
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Location: Australia

Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Currie » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:36 am

Thanks for the feedback Will.

It’s a great picture. He looks a pleasant sort of a fellow, as suggested by the obit, and was probably the very model of a modern Major-General.

All the best,
Alan

Will M
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:45 pm
Location: Kingston, Canada

Re: Identify Family crest with Motto

Post by Will M » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:56 pm

Here is a good write up from the Charles Sturt Museum on Charles Sheppey Sturt

http://www.charlessturtmuseum.com.au/re ... 0sturt.pdf