Numbering in High Street Linlithgow?

[Andersonic]

I recently visited Linlithgow, where I have ancestors ( Park Head, Market Cross, high Street) and happily trotted the full length of the High Street taking photos for my cousin, who is really into discovering her Scottish ancestry, but I never thought to look at the numbers along the street, to try to locate where our Downie shoemaking ancestors lived in 1951 etc. Could anyone help me by locating original numbers against modern shops/ pubs, etc, which I have most diligently photographed,giving a lovely atmosphere of what seems a delightful place, but have been told as they stand, they are of little use to her! James Downie died by 1871, I seem to recall, but some of his children with Elizabeth lived on in the area, and she'd like me to locate the original numbers from the censuses against my pics, which do not seem to show any current numbers. Is there any practical help anyone can suggest to me, please?

[Currie]

In 1841 Linlithgow houses don't seem to have had numbers, but had acquired them by 1851. Let's hope that they haven't renumbered the streets since then. It seems likely they would have adopted the odds one side, evens the other, system then, as Glasgow and Edinburgh had it much earlier. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14656&p=120114&hili ... rs#p120114

It's now 165 years since 1851 and how many of those buildings would have survived? Here's a 1900 Directory for Linlithgow, maybe you'll find some clues there. https://archive.org/stream/edinburghsou ... 0/mode/2up

Which numbers in High Street are you looking for? Sometimes the newspapers can be helpful.

Alan

[WilmaM]

http://maps.nls.uk/towns/rec/379
This map of the town is very informative, thoughbno numbers are shown it does give the owners names, which ma help.
Comparing the old and new maps shows that the buildings on one side of the road are still easily distinguished.
The loch side as you'll have noticed, is all modern.

[Andersonic]

Thank you very much, WilmaM, I'd seen that particular map, it's wonderful, but obviously our lowly James Downie ( b. 1795ish, journeyman shoemaker in 1851) mustn't have actually owned any property at the time of the map. The only information I've got for the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses for James and his wife Elizabeth is "High Street" , although I'm fairly sure they'd be at the lower end of the town, when buildings are smaller and generally less status-y. I thought I'd got a house number in 1861, but I was in error. Noticed on other maps several tanneries, so obviously leatherworking was a major concern at that time, not just local shoemaking and repair.
I can't find an appropriate entry in that directory, either, but thank you Currie, it was an interesting directory, and a potentially very helpful idea. I knew odd numbers would be one side, and evens the other, that's fairly normal, but I was trying to work out if they started with lowest numbers up near the "Star and Garter" inn, or at the other end of the town, to try to match up modern images with older locations. It is a long time ago, but I'd noticed that most of the rebuilding seemed to be in the central area, and earlier architectural styles seemed lower down the hill, as well. Some very nice Georgian and later architecture in a lovely little town, I thought.
In 1851 some of our Bowies are at Market cross, which I assumed is that rather nice cobbled area below the church and castle ruins entrance area, ( Robert Bowie, a tailor, and I'm assuming that his father, Hugh Bowie, also a tailor, would have been located nearby in 1841).
Thank you both again, for your help. I think I shall just e-mail my cousin with a few general shots, and say "somewhere in there......"!

[Andersonic]

Looking at the info. I already had - which took some finding - the numbers in the 1860s seem to have been 230-ish ( - It's not completely clear from the notes) . Is that any help to anyone?
I suspect they'd been at the far end of the town from the "Star and Garter" end.... The Bowies seem to have been weavers, then tailors/ drapers, etc., and the Downies mostly shoemakers, as far asI can tell from records we have. Our direct ancestor seems to have left for England in the period between 1861 and 1871.

[rossm]

This is the google streetview image of 230 High Street Linlithgow:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.97610 ... 312!8i6656

Number 230 is the white shop immediately to the right, with 'Wellbread' further down at number 234 (I'm assuming 232 is down the small lane between the two).

Cheers

Ross

[rossm]

And as a quick follow up to my previous post: Checking the modern aerial view of that section of the High Street (from roughly 226 to 236), they do seem to match the footprints of the buildings found on the 1856 town plan (http://maps.nls.uk/view/74416124), so it looks reasonably likely that those same buildings have survived from the time period you are looking at. Whether they are still the same house numbers or not...

Ross

[Andersonic]

Thank you rossm - will now blow up my photos of said road, and try to identify given buildings, also got 256 High Street, now to find, and 170! Why did I ever agree.......

[Currie]

More High Street numbers to play with. From Parliamentary Papers “1890-91 (388) Licensed premises (Scotland) etc.....”. Just a short stagger between them.
http://imgur.com/a/tcPow

The story of the widening of High Street. http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/comm ... w-widening

“A low cost widening scheme for the narrowest part of this street has been prepared. It provides for the demolition of the property, mostly sub-standard, on the north side of the street at its narrowest part. It provides for a carriage way 30 ft. wide as against the present 19 ft., plus a border on each side of that carriage way of 5 ft. wide, and for a footpath 10 ft. wide, a total width of 60 ft.”

“I understand that some 45 houses and 12 shops are involved. I feel that the Town Council should be able to arrange this, but there does not seem to me to be much point in demolishing property until such time as the road work can be carried out.”

The above work appears to have been carried out in 1958. They were at it again in 1959. https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 8904&hl=en

Alan

[Andersonic]

The clips you provided are fascinating, thank you so much, Currie!
I started off looking at the Linlithgow numbering because a relative was interested in knowing what sort of places our mutual ancestors occupied, in Linlithgow in the mid 19th Century, and, as I was going up on a visit to the area, I started taking a series of photographs of the main street, for her information. Since then I have learned a little more myself, and become quite fascinated by the place - a lovely little town, by the way - and our Bowie/Downie weaver, clothier and shoemaker ancestry. Until a couple of years ago, I'd thought all our ancestry on that side was Lancastrian and Irish - a great surprise to discover a great great grandmother born in such a nice place.
The Hansard extract alone is well-worth reading, and mulling over, and having recently seen the very 1960s part that has been rebuilt, and the lower part of the town, too, I'm wishing I'd known what I know now when I had visited there, as I'd have been far more able to photograph informative images.
Since I started this topic I've found that (deep breath) numbers involved include 256, 170, 146, 111, 142, 138, for various bits of just the Downie side at various times! I haven't extracted the Bowie side yet! I can see I shall have to try to manage another visit some day - this time with a list of numbers, a copy of the old map, and newly- informed eyes.
Thank you all, I do appreciate your donation of time and expertise.