Naming a daughter

[Geoff Rogers]

My 3x Great Grandmother Helen Ferguson born about 1793 in Edinburgh never married but gave birth to a daughter in 1829 at Kenmore, Perthshire.

I have not found a birth for her yet and I only know her details from information given in various censuses. Interestingly she was called Anne McDougall and her second son was called David Alexander McDougall Sime.

I would like to think the Alexander McDougall part of his name was information about his mothers father, is this a likely scenario?

Thanks for reading.

Geoff Rogers

[WilmaM]

Maybe aye maybe no!

It's hard not to read too much into something like that , but without any sort of proof I'd not put too much store by it.

Calling the daughter by her father's surname would be taken as on face value being an idea of his identity but extrapolating it out to the young son's name may be going too far.

I did have a look for the Kirk Records, but sadly it's only accounts that seem to have survived for Kenmore Parish, so nothing to be had from that avenue of searching.
First glance didn't show an Alexander Mcdougall of the right age group in that area at the right time, but who knows where 'they' may have met.

A period of time before census records etc makes it much harder to pin folks down.
I think I'd want to flesh out both Helen Ferguson's life and that of her daughter - birth place, occupation, addresses relations to see where a Mr McDougall may have slotted in, if Mr Mcdougall ever existed in this scenario.

Edit: I checked FMP and the only Ann McDougalls in Kenmore were born in 1830 to an Alexander McDougall and a Margaret McGilliwie, 1828 to Catherine Frazer and Hugh McDougall.
An 1871 census fro Kenmore has an Ann born ~1825 living with a brother Alexander McDougall [b ~1829] and thier mother Ann.

[Elwyn 1]

Did either Alexander or Ann die in Scotland? If so, what do their death certificates say about their father’s name?

[Geoff Rogers]

Thanks for the efforts.

I too checked the Kirk records and the various baptisms but none for my Anne.

i had checked Helen's movements and in 1841 she was at Milton and 1851 at Croftmartaig , both near Kenmore.

Code: Select all

Did either Alexander or Ann die in Scotland? If so, what do their death certificates say about their father’s name?

No unfortunately Anne and her husband had moved to England by the time she died.

Regards
Geoff Rogers

[Geoff Rogers]

Just an update,

I have found an Alexander McDougall at Milton, Kenmore as was Helen (Ellen) Fergusson.

[WilmaM]

I take it that this is the family in 1861 :
Whitelay, Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Sim Head Married Male 43 1818 Linnen weaver Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
Ann McDougal Wife Married Female 32 1829 Wife Kenmore, Perthshire, Scotland
William Sim Son Unmarried Male 6 1855 Son Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
David A Sim Son Unmarried Male 4 1857 Son Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
James Sim Brother Unmarried Male 63 1798 Linnen weaver Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
Helen Ferguson Mother-in-law Unmarried Female 66 1795 Domestic sevt Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Martha Duncan Servant Unmarried Female 12 1849 Servant Perthshire, Scotland

Which would tie in with this death:
FERGUSON HELEN 71y mother's maiden name SIMPSON F 1863 338 / 21 CARGILL

Annoyingly, they swap between Sim and Sime and I just can't spy a birth for William in 1854/5 nor a marriage for Ann and William.

[AndrewP]

The online IGI shows both William and David:
>> William Sim, Christening, 09-Dec-1854, Cargill, Perthshire
>> David Alexander McDougall Sime, birth, 04-Jan-1857, Cargill, Perthshire

And the parents' marriage:
>> William Syme & Anne McDougal, 20-Nov-1853, Cargill, Perthshire

These all also show up on ScotlandsPeople in the OPRs (pre-1855) and the statutory records (1855+).

All the best,

AndrewP

[WilmaM]

Ah, the phonetic matching, didn't pick up all those variations of surnames.
Pity William wasn't born three weeks later in 1855!

[Geoff Rogers]

I take it that this is the family in 1861 :
Whitelay, Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Sim Head Married Male 43 1818 Linnen weaver Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
Ann McDougal Wife Married Female 32 1829 Wife Kenmore, Perthshire, Scotland
William Sim Son Unmarried Male 6 1855 Son Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
David A Sim Son Unmarried Male 4 1857 Son Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
James Sim Brother Unmarried Male 63 1798 Linnen weaver Cargill, Perthshire, Scotland
Helen Ferguson Mother-in-law Unmarried Female 66 1795 Domestic sevt Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Martha Duncan Servant Unmarried Female 12 1849 Servant Perthshire, Scotland

Yes that's them.

Helen died 5/10/1880 at George Street, Coupar Angus, Perthshire, Scotland.

[Geoff Rogers]

The online IGI shows both William and David:
>> William Sim, Christening, 09-Dec-1854, Cargill, Perthshire
>> David Alexander McDougall Sime, birth, 04-Jan-1857, Cargill, Perthshire

And the parents' marriage:
>> William Syme & Anne McDougal, 20-Nov-1853, Cargill, Perthshire

These all also show up on ScotlandsPeople in the OPRs (pre-1855) and the statutory records (1855+).

All the best,

AndrewP

Thanks, I have their details.