A child who lived only one day - birth or death certificate?

[Mo-anne]

This is my first attempt at trying to trace an "English" ancestor so I'd appreciate advice on how to pursue this.

My ggg grandfather (Jaques Hartenstein) arrived in England in the 19th century from France. I know he married in 1853 in Lambeth. However, I have recently found several references in BMD indexes to a Jaques Louis Hartenstein who was born and died on 30th July 1851. I don't know if this person is related but the surname was uncommon and Louis was the second name given by my ggg grandfather to one of his sons.

How can I get more information - i have found the event listed in deaths and in births, never in both : one site I checked included the info that JLH lived on only 30th July. Should there be two entries or only one? Should I apply for a birth certificate or a death certificate? Or both?

Many thanks. Mo-anne

[Elwyn 1]

I have come across this in my own research, where a child died within a day or so of being born. There was no birth certificate. I don’t think the parents had got around to registering it and so when the baby died they just registered the death alone. Whether they should have registered the birth is another matter but they evidently didn’t. Probably couldn’t see any point.

Colin D. Rogers in his excellent book The family tree detective: a manual for tracing your ancestors in England and Wales notes that registration of deaths was more complete than that of births in the early years of civil registration but goes on to say:

Research suggests that underregistration [of deaths] was worst in the period 1841-46, and that the majority of those missing were probably young infants.

Though these remarks were made in the context of non registration in England and Wales, it would seem likely to me that Ireland and Scotland would have experienced similar levels of non-registration in the early years of statutory registration in those jurisdictions.

[SarahND]

Hello Mo-anne,
If there is a birth certificate, it will give you more information than an English death certificate, which doesn't tell you much. Both parents are named on the birth certificate- this the only time an English certificate will give you the mother's name.

All the best,
Sarah

[paddyscar]

Hi Mo-anne:

Searching Family Search http://www.familysearch.org using the surname only with British Isles brings up only 4 records, including

EDWARD JAMES HARTENSTEIN Pedigree
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 22 FEB 1863 Saint Mary Magdalen, Richmond, Surrey, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JACQUES HARTENSTEIN Family
Mother: MARY

This record is transcribed from the records. Perhaps if you were to obtain the original microfilm, you could sort out the surname of the mother, if included in the original document.

Sorry not to be of any greater help, but there is also a member record for a Louisa who died in 1906, so that may be worth pursuing to see if there is a connection.

Frances

[trish1]

Looking at freeBDM there only seems to be a death entry - so unless misspelt it appears there is no birth registration. (I did search for just the given name without success). The death record would provide the name of the informant - who may be a parent - and if the death is for an infant, the father's name sometimes appears with the name of the child.

Trish

[AnneM]

Hi
On Find my Past there seems indeed only to be a death entry

HARTENSTEIN, Jacques Louis
Registration district: [?] Wandsworth
County: London
Year of registration: 1851
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 4
Page no: 405

It may be worth getting the certificate to see who the informant was or in case it gives a parent's name.

It looks as though Jacquest senior died in 1879.

Anne

Anne

[StewL]

Hi all
Although I am speaking about Scotland here. I have a DC for someone who only lived one day. I did a check on GROS and there was no BC.
He died in Glasgow Maternity Hospital in 1946.

[AndrewP]

Although I am speaking about Scotland here. I have a DC for someone who only lived one day. I did a check on GROS and there was no BC.
He died in Glasgow Maternity Hospital in 1946.

Hi Stewie,

In theory, and by law, for a live birth (in Scotland from 1855 onwards) and subsequent death, there should be a birth certificate and a death certificate.

All the best,

AndrewP

[StewL]

Thanks Andrew
I would have thought so to, but I was on GROS about an hour or so ago, and could not find it.
He was an older brother who died of congenital heart defect. Later his name was given to one of my younger brothers (3rd wain).
Those that were alive of course.

[Montrose Budie]

Although I am speaking about Scotland here. I have a DC for someone who only lived one day. I did a check on GROS and there was no BC.
He died in Glasgow Maternity Hospital in 1946.

Hi Stewie,

In theory, and by law, for a live birth (in Scotland from 1855 onwards) and subsequent death, there should be a birth certificate and a death certificate.

All the best,

AndrewP

I've come across several such situations over the years.

As long as there was a 'live birth', even if the puir wee soul only survived a few minutes, then there really should have been a matching birth registration.

Beyond that, if someone was registering such a death, then any registrar worth his appointment should have been enquiring if the birth had been duly registered.

But that's the point, as the regulations were such that there was no absolute requirement for the registrar to demand such information on the birth.

In other words, if someone turned up to the registrar's office to register the death of a 2 day old, the registrar had to process the death registration, regardless, but had no absolute power to require info on the birth; altho you'd have thought that any registrar worth his salt would ask the obvious questions.

Yes, of course, the registrar was required to seek such details of the birth, as there were penalties for non-registration, but in anything other than a small, rural parish, this might not be an easy task, especially if the death registration informant was not a close family member.

mb