Help finding death, please? .....

MaryE · Post by **MaryE** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:05 pm

Catriona

Just a thought - it may not be worth anything but you never know ....

Robert may well have died quietly in his own bed but given his occupation of Stoker on Steam Ship he will have been away from home and on board ship for quite a lot of the time. Stoking - shovelling coal into the ship's boiler - would have been quite a hazardous occupation and he might have been injured/died on board as the result of an accident. Also possible is a shipwreck. I did a quick Google and though I didn't come up with anything specific I did come across the following bits in a BBC website:

'In 1869 alone there were 20 shipwrecks between South Shields and Sunderland' and also that there were '44 shipwrecks every mile' off the coast between the Tyne and the Tees.

What I'm trying to say is that it might well be worth getting his death cert because if cause of death was something like this then you might well get a post mortem or something in the local newspaper. He died such a very short time after the 1891 census that it's likely he was still working.

Mary

Rab · Post by **Rab** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:13 pm

As Mary says Stokers had a really risky job. I've got quite a few Stokers in my family. These guys were in an area, usually the engine room, where there was no escape. In war time stokers didn't really stand a chance if their ships were hit.

catbug · Post by **catbug** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:01 pm

Hi again Mary and Rab,

Thanks for that info

I think I definitely will get the DC now as there could be an 'interesting' cause of death there and something to follow up - I didn't think about that. He seemes to have followed his dad into that job as he did it too, and also died quite young (pre 1855 though so I can't find out how he died), but his son who also did the same job lived to be in his 90s! The information about the shipwrecks sounds scary - I hope he didn't die like that but I suppose it would have been a hazard of the job. Wouldn't be the first odd death in my family though - my GG Grandad on the other side (maternal side) died when a bomb landed on the factory he was working in during the war. Bet he thought he had it easy, being too old to actually go to war

Thanks again,

Cat

catbug · Post by **catbug** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:54 pm

Hello,

I thought I'd add a bit more to this old thread as I eventually got round to ordering the death certificate and receeved it today. It was indeed the Robert Caithness I was looking for so a big thanks to all who pointed me in the right direction regarding where to find the death details, etc. He didn't die in any sort of shipwreck or accident but instead the cause of death is given as "Found dead in bed from natural causes, most probably Syncope following on Chronic Bronchitis". However in the informant's 'box' it says "Certificate received from Crofter Maynard(?) coroner for Easington Ward, Durham. Inquest held 20th October 1891." Can anyone tell me whether it was standard practice to hold an inquest for a death such as this and if it is possible to access any information about it? He died at 43 Henry Street, Bishopwearmouth if that makes any difference for finding details, etc. Any help, points in the right direction, etc would be much appreciated as always.

Thanks,
Cat

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:17 pm

The basic practice was to hold an inquest where the death was accidental, or unexpected, or if there had been no regular medical attendant prior to death who could certify the cause of death.

In England this duty fell to the coroner.

In Scotland the sitation was slightly more complicated in that the death was first referred to the Procurator Fiscal, who, along with his staff, decided if any further inquiry or even criminal court action was necessary.

After 1895 an Act of Act of Parliament introduced Fatal Accident Inquiries in Scotland before a Sheriff in front of a jury for all industrial accidents and cases of sudden death where public interest was involved, but not into deaths by suicide.

See http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4308 for a very recent transfer to the FAQ Forum.

I believe that very few early papers survive from Procurators' Fiscal offices, but there is a reasonable survival rate of FAI material.

I have no idea of the what the situation is like in England. You could try contacting TNA.

David

catbug · Post by **catbug** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:41 pm

Thanks for that David - a lot of interesting information in the link you posted

. I'll do as you suggest and contact TNA.

Thanks again,
Cat

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:38 am

Cat

Just a thought on his death and previous occupation. I would say that he would have died of a disease almost identical to coalminers lung. He would have been in a confined space shovelling coal into the furnace, and he would have to have been involved in storing the coal too. As this job was handling broken bits of coal, there would have been a lot of dust flying around all the time. Possibly even more than in a coal mine, as the coal would have been "drier".
Just a thought on the subject.

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:49 am

StewL wrote:Cat

Just a thought on his death and previous occupation. I would say that he would have died of a disease almost identical to coalminers lung. He would have been in a confined space shovelling coal into the furnace, and he would have to have been involved in storing the coal too. As this job was handling broken bits of coal, there would have been a lot of dust flying around all the time. Possibly even more than in a coal mine, as the coal would have been "drier".
Just a thought on the subject.

Some years ago I came across a situation in Lanarkshire in the 1800s where four brothers and their father died in their 30s or 40s, - the cause of death given variously as bronchitis or asthma, - later known as the industrial diseases of emphysema and pneumoconiosis ................

They were all coal miners ........... <v sad g>

David

StewL · Post by **StewL** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:52 am

Hello David

My maternal grandfather was retired/pensioned out of the pits due to lung problems, but luckily he survived until the age of 79. Probably because of the availability of modern antibiotics/medicine he died in 1958.

catbug · Post by **catbug** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:49 pm

Hi Stew,

That thought crossed my mind too - very sad and quite a horrible way to die

. On his DC it has his occupation as a stoker of a screw ship, rather than a steam ship. I have tried to look up what this is and how it differed from a steam ship but have been unable to find anything useful. I don't think it would make much difference though as he was still a stoker of some sort so probably worked under indentical or very similar conditions. Robert's son who stayed in Scotland had the same occupation as him but lived to be in his 90's - must've been quite lucky in that respect!

Cat