Irish immigrants
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Re: Irish immigrants
Hi Elwyn,
Sorry for the delay in replying to you - 5 month old grand-daughter duties intervened!
I did print out the marriage cert for Philip Purcell and Mary Cahill (hope it shows up) - quickest 5 euros i have spent in a while
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... e=kilkenny
As you rightly said not much info on it but still i have the address and parish to work on. Awaiting my other certificate to come through the post for McFarland.
Thanks again,
Ailsa
Sorry for the delay in replying to you - 5 month old grand-daughter duties intervened!
I did print out the marriage cert for Philip Purcell and Mary Cahill (hope it shows up) - quickest 5 euros i have spent in a while
http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/view_detail ... e=kilkenny
As you rightly said not much info on it but still i have the address and parish to work on. Awaiting my other certificate to come through the post for McFarland.
Thanks again,
Ailsa
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- Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland
Re: Irish immigrants
Ailsa,
No, the link just takes me to the log-in page and I can’t see the results you got. What were the townlands and the parish?
Elwyn
No, the link just takes me to the log-in page and I can’t see the results you got. What were the townlands and the parish?
Elwyn
Elwyn
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Re: Irish immigrants
Hi Elwyn,
Date of marriage 24th Sept 1832 Parish/District Lisdowney Co Kilkenny. Address of Philip Purcell Blackwood - no address for Mary Cahill. No parents names. Witness John Dunne and Anastasia Walsh. Notes say Witness 2 given as Anty.
That's all there is - both Roman Catholic. I thought there would have been a church name.
Regards
Ailsa
Date of marriage 24th Sept 1832 Parish/District Lisdowney Co Kilkenny. Address of Philip Purcell Blackwood - no address for Mary Cahill. No parents names. Witness John Dunne and Anastasia Walsh. Notes say Witness 2 given as Anty.
That's all there is - both Roman Catholic. I thought there would have been a church name.
Regards
Ailsa
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- Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland
Re: Irish immigrants
RC parish names don’t always match the civil parish names used in Griffiths Valuation. And in Co Kilkenny they vary considerably.
Can’t help with the Purcell aspect too much. If you go to this site, you’ll see the civil parishes and townlands that are in the RC parish of Lisdowney. You could then search for Purcell in each of those parishes on Griffiths Valuation.
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuse ... =Lisdowney
Blackwood is in the civil parish of Rathbeagh (RC parish of Lisdowney). James, John & Matthew Cahill were all renting houses, offices (outbuildings) and 35 acres in Blackwood in 1849 (plot 6). That’s to the north of the modern Clintstown Rd, a couple of miles east from Freshford. So that might be where Mary Cahill came from. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so I’d be looking for RC churches near Blackwood (there’s often more than one chapel in an RC parish). Here’s a link to churches in the area. You might need to get local advice from the tourist office or one of the churches, to narrow your search.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~clontubrid/ ... _hist.html
Can’t help with the Purcell aspect too much. If you go to this site, you’ll see the civil parishes and townlands that are in the RC parish of Lisdowney. You could then search for Purcell in each of those parishes on Griffiths Valuation.
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuse ... =Lisdowney
Blackwood is in the civil parish of Rathbeagh (RC parish of Lisdowney). James, John & Matthew Cahill were all renting houses, offices (outbuildings) and 35 acres in Blackwood in 1849 (plot 6). That’s to the north of the modern Clintstown Rd, a couple of miles east from Freshford. So that might be where Mary Cahill came from. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so I’d be looking for RC churches near Blackwood (there’s often more than one chapel in an RC parish). Here’s a link to churches in the area. You might need to get local advice from the tourist office or one of the churches, to narrow your search.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~clontubrid/ ... _hist.html
Elwyn
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Re: Irish immigrants
Hi Elwyn,
I have been looking back at my notes and found this from a few years back when a very kind chap on TS found this out for me
Barony Poor Relief Application. D-HEW 15/6/2. Page 755. N°326.
John PURCELL.
452 Dobbies Loan, B. 2 up right. Rent 15/- monthly. 2 apt.
Applied 11am, 21st June 1886. Visit 3pm, 22/6/86.
Born - Freshford, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland.
Age 50. Married. Shoemaker. R.C.
Married 31 Dec 1863 at Adelphi St, SS by Rev Mr Lindsay. No Lines.
Wholly disabled - Rheumatism.
Wife earns a little washing.
Parents - Philip Purcell, shoemaker & Mary Carlin? Both dead. ......[but looks like Cachin - not easy to read]
Wife - Ann Gray, 46, born near Belfast, Ireland. Protestant. Sewer.
Parents - James Gray & Ann Liggel? She dead. He residing in Rothesay. ....[surname looks like it says Liggel]
Do you know if this would fit in with the info re Philip and Mary ? and if i looked up this birth in rootsireland do you know what info it would give me?
Thanks for looking,
Ailsa
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I have been looking back at my notes and found this from a few years back when a very kind chap on TS found this out for me
Barony Poor Relief Application. D-HEW 15/6/2. Page 755. N°326.
John PURCELL.
452 Dobbies Loan, B. 2 up right. Rent 15/- monthly. 2 apt.
Applied 11am, 21st June 1886. Visit 3pm, 22/6/86.
Born - Freshford, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland.
Age 50. Married. Shoemaker. R.C.
Married 31 Dec 1863 at Adelphi St, SS by Rev Mr Lindsay. No Lines.
Wholly disabled - Rheumatism.
Wife earns a little washing.
Parents - Philip Purcell, shoemaker & Mary Carlin? Both dead. ......[but looks like Cachin - not easy to read]
Wife - Ann Gray, 46, born near Belfast, Ireland. Protestant. Sewer.
Parents - James Gray & Ann Liggel? She dead. He residing in Rothesay. ....[surname looks like it says Liggel]
Do you know if this would fit in with the info re Philip and Mary ? and if i looked up this birth in rootsireland do you know what info it would give me?
Thanks for looking,
Ailsa
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Re: Irish immigrants
Alisa,
Yes I think your luck is in. I mentioned yesterday that I thought Mary Cahill came from Freshford. Now you have found evidence that John Purcell came from there too. That can hardly be a coincidence. So I think you have probably found where they both came from and I doubt you’ll get any better proof, given the timescale you are dealing with. (Finding where their Irish ancestors came from beats a lot of people so I think you can congratulate yourself).
I assume the information from the Poor Relief file matches what you already know (ie address,etc. Occupation and age seem right anyway).
You ask what information you would get if you looked up the birth in Rootsireland. I am not sure which birth you are referring to. Is it for both Philip & Mary? Either way they were both born before the start of statutory registration of births in Ireland (1864) so you won’t find a birth certificate. If there is a record, then what you’ll get is baptism records, which can vary. For John who is RC, that is usually his name, the 2 parents names and the 2 sponsors names. In later years their townland (address) was often recorded, but it may not be in the 1830s. For Ann who is presumably Church of Ireland or Presbyterian, you would get her name, her parents names, and possibly her townland. (Not many Protestant baptism records are on Rootsireland, so not sure you’ll get a match for her at all). Sometimes with COI you also get the father’s occupation, but not always. In later years they used a pre-printed book which had a column for occupation but in earlier years they did not.
For her, if you eventually identify where she was baptised somehow, but it isn’t on Rootsireland, you may need to check out the parish records which will normally have been copied to PRONI, Belfast and which are on microfilm. There’s also Emerald Ancestry and Ancestry Ireland both of which have some Co Antrim & Co Down parish records on their databases. (Ann comes from “near Belfast” according to the Poor Law application. Most of Belfast is in Co Antrim but a small part, east of the River Lagan, is in Co Down. You need to bear both counties in mind when searching.
If Ann was Church of Ireland, she’ll likely appear as Episcopalian in Scotland, and if she was Presbyterian, she’ll be Church of Scotland.
Elwyn
Yes I think your luck is in. I mentioned yesterday that I thought Mary Cahill came from Freshford. Now you have found evidence that John Purcell came from there too. That can hardly be a coincidence. So I think you have probably found where they both came from and I doubt you’ll get any better proof, given the timescale you are dealing with. (Finding where their Irish ancestors came from beats a lot of people so I think you can congratulate yourself).
I assume the information from the Poor Relief file matches what you already know (ie address,etc. Occupation and age seem right anyway).
You ask what information you would get if you looked up the birth in Rootsireland. I am not sure which birth you are referring to. Is it for both Philip & Mary? Either way they were both born before the start of statutory registration of births in Ireland (1864) so you won’t find a birth certificate. If there is a record, then what you’ll get is baptism records, which can vary. For John who is RC, that is usually his name, the 2 parents names and the 2 sponsors names. In later years their townland (address) was often recorded, but it may not be in the 1830s. For Ann who is presumably Church of Ireland or Presbyterian, you would get her name, her parents names, and possibly her townland. (Not many Protestant baptism records are on Rootsireland, so not sure you’ll get a match for her at all). Sometimes with COI you also get the father’s occupation, but not always. In later years they used a pre-printed book which had a column for occupation but in earlier years they did not.
For her, if you eventually identify where she was baptised somehow, but it isn’t on Rootsireland, you may need to check out the parish records which will normally have been copied to PRONI, Belfast and which are on microfilm. There’s also Emerald Ancestry and Ancestry Ireland both of which have some Co Antrim & Co Down parish records on their databases. (Ann comes from “near Belfast” according to the Poor Law application. Most of Belfast is in Co Antrim but a small part, east of the River Lagan, is in Co Down. You need to bear both counties in mind when searching.
If Ann was Church of Ireland, she’ll likely appear as Episcopalian in Scotland, and if she was Presbyterian, she’ll be Church of Scotland.
Elwyn
Elwyn
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Re: Irish immigrants
Thanks Elwyn,
I think i can safely put that aside and make plans to visit Freshford and try and look round a few RC churches and a tourist office if there is one. No doubt I will meet a Purcell or Cahill along the way!
You have been very helpful in clarifying what to expect to find from the records. I know how difficult it is looking for Irish ancestors but it is satisfying to get an area where to start.
I do have other connections to look at so i hope you don't mind helping me if you can. For the moment though i will say thank you very much and have a good week end.
Regards
Ailsa
I think i can safely put that aside and make plans to visit Freshford and try and look round a few RC churches and a tourist office if there is one. No doubt I will meet a Purcell or Cahill along the way!
You have been very helpful in clarifying what to expect to find from the records. I know how difficult it is looking for Irish ancestors but it is satisfying to get an area where to start.
I do have other connections to look at so i hope you don't mind helping me if you can. For the moment though i will say thank you very much and have a good week end.
Regards
Ailsa
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- Posts: 201
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm
- Location: Co. Antrim, Ireland
Re: Irish immigrants
Ailsa,
Glad to help. If you use the Griffiths maps effectively, you should be able to find the Cahill farm easily enough. (I can see where it is on the modern map). I'd knock on the door and see who's there now. Good luck anyway.
Elwyn
Glad to help. If you use the Griffiths maps effectively, you should be able to find the Cahill farm easily enough. (I can see where it is on the modern map). I'd knock on the door and see who's there now. Good luck anyway.
Elwyn
Elwyn
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Re: Irish immigrants
Hi Elwyn,
I can't find it on the modern map let alone the Griffiths Valuation map ! Is it Moate Farm by any chance with Mrs Cahill as Proprietor ?
Ailsa
I can't find it on the modern map let alone the Griffiths Valuation map ! Is it Moate Farm by any chance with Mrs Cahill as Proprietor ?
Ailsa
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- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:23 am
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Re: Irish immigrants
Hi Elwyn and anyone else who can help,
I have received today the cert for James McFarlane (McFarland on cert) and Jane Dixon but I am having trouble reading it.
Hopefully you can see it (below). I can't make out the Parish and where it was solemnized, also the professions are difficult.
http://tinypic.com/r/11bndw1/7
All help appreciated.
Ailsa
I have received today the cert for James McFarlane (McFarland on cert) and Jane Dixon but I am having trouble reading it.
Hopefully you can see it (below). I can't make out the Parish and where it was solemnized, also the professions are difficult.
http://tinypic.com/r/11bndw1/7
All help appreciated.
Ailsa