HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Useful places to look up facts

Moderator: Global Moderators

williamherbert
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:55 pm

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by williamherbert » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:45 am

this is the one I found on the 1911 census.

william wallace age 41 born widnes
elizabeth annie age 39 born liverpool
samuel anderson stepson age 18 born liverpool, didnt notice this one straight away, who does he belong too,??
william herbert dempster age 13 born walton stepson
frances annie dempster age 11 born liverpool stepdaughter
vincent dempster age 9 or 4 cant tell which born litherland,? stepson
and julia wallace daughter age 3 born bootle.

I have sent for both frances annie's birth certificate and elizabeth annie's marriage certificate to william wallace, I have the wedding application form, they married in 1907.

Im now thinking I have not found the right william herbert dempster.

I did notice that there is a margaret anderson with robina l dempster and william dempster on the 1901 census, could it be a connection to samuel or just a coincidence,?

oh well, thinking cap back on again I think.

williamherbert.

kenspeckle
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:30 am
Location: born in Glasgow now living in Huon Valley Tasmania

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by kenspeckle » Sat May 01, 2010 1:54 pm

Hi
when you have a name that is common ie lots of William Dempsters its better to go to Scotlands people and get his birth cert you say you have his marriage cert and fathers name is also William Dempster what is his mothers full maiden name ? thats quite important to know and also what are the names on his death cert of both parents and any middle names also the names of witnesses as they can be family and provide more clues

keeping in mind folk can make mistakes then find the marriage of his parents and addresses and occupations they may have been living in Edinburgh when they married in Scotlands people do a search for birth of William Dempster searching the whole of Scotland 1894-1902 brings up 46 matches on 2 pages that will only cost you 2 points there is no William Herbert Dempster in search between 1890 & 1900 whole of Scotland but there is 1 William H Dempster and he is not in Edinburgh


you really can't get correct info on the census when its a common name unless you can pin a know thing down middle names siblings names occupations ect and will just be wasting time and possibly money
I dont remember seeing gardens in Edinburgh Castle but I was not really looking for that when I was there though it had bits of grass lawns ( its built on a rock)
and around the time of his birth The Royal Scots Greys were stationed there and off to the Boer War
but possible he worked in Princes st Gardens beneath the Castle I don't think they would have a game keeper at Edinburgh Castle

regards lesley in Tasmania
you cant always take old aunties word but she may be close and often things get muddled with an element of truth My old Mum gave me lots of bits that were right and lots that was not
researching : Roddick, Stewart, Combe,Lyle , Wilkie, Budge, Kirkwood,Howat, McKinlay, Gunning, Gumprecht, Mirrlees, Muckersie, Greig, Moncrieff, Pattison, Hornibrook, Teape, Brockhoff,Buchanan,

williamherbert
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:55 pm

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by williamherbert » Sat May 01, 2010 9:21 pm

hiya kenspekle,

whereabouts is the birth that you found for william herbert dempster. I am unable to send for a birth certificate as I do not know where he was born, I am only going by what I have been told about him,

I know what you mean about tales getting confused, I found it hard to believe that his father was a gamekeeper/gardner at the castle knowing full well it's built on a rock, but my two new cousins are adament that this is where william herbert was born and that his dad worked for the castle.

I have that copy of the 1911 census, I have also sent for frances annie's birth certificate and elizabeth and william wallace's marriage certificate.

other than the details of his medal record and discharge paper this is all I have to go on and nothing prior to him enlisting in the manchester reg.

I have not found anymore of my father's brothers or sisters or their families to enable me to find out anymore about william herbert.

thanks for you information,
williamherber

marypryde
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:33 am
Location: South Carolina, USA

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by marypryde » Sun May 02, 2010 1:35 am

I'll throw in my 2 cent worth, based on something I learned from Alan. Try searching in Google Books. There is quite a lot about Scottish/English gardeners in there, as I learned when searching for my great-grandfather who was head gardener at Calderwood Castle, Lanarkshire, at the turn of the 20th Century. Alan found several references to him, by name.

I just did a quick search on various combinations that included: william, herbert, dempster, gardener, edinburgh castle. I didn't take the time to go through it all, but a lot of information came up, much of it in old gardening journals. It might be a tedious search but worth doing.

By the way, my ancestor immigrated to the United States in 1911 - there were a lot of grand estates (read American castles) anxious to employ Scottish/English gardeners during that period.

Happy hunting! Mary Ellen
Researching Pryde/Doig/Scott/Jack/Paton/Frazer in Fife and Thomson/Barclay/Steele/Barr/Lockie/Sandilands in Lanarkshire

kenspeckle
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:30 am
Location: born in Glasgow now living in Huon Valley Tasmania

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by kenspeckle » Sun May 02, 2010 9:10 am

Not wanting to confuse you any more than you must be

1891 census Scotland has a River Watcher ...... which is a type of Gamekeeper...
Name: William Dempster
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Coul, Aberdeenshire
Registration Number: 387
Registration district: Perth
Civil parish: Perth East Church
Town: Perth
County: Perthshire
Address: 10 Market St
Occupation: River Watcher
ED: 8
Household schedule number: 140
Line: 23
Roll: CSSCT1891_117
John Turner 62 b England Railway Conductor Retired
Jane Turner 60 b Linlithgow
John W Turner 20
William Dempster 28
George Mihre 18

another Dempster of the same birth place and same occupation
Name: Alexander Dempster
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Coull, Aberdeen Shire
Registration Number: 513
Registration district: Inveraray
Civil parish: Glenaray
County: Argyll
Address: Carlunan Falls
Occupation: River Watcher
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 29
Line: 20
Roll: CSSCT1891_167
Alexander Dempster 25
James Wilson 20

WILLIAM DEMPSTER
Birth:
14 DEC 1860 Coull, Aberdeen, Scotland
Father: ALEXANDER DEMPSTER
Mother: JESSIE HAY

the only William from Aberdeen that comes up in 1901 is below and Aboyne & Coull are in the same area
William Dempster
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Janet
Gender: Male
Where born: Aboyne, Aberdeenshire
Registration Number: 490
Registration district: Stirling
Civil parish: Stirling
County: Stirlingshire
Address: 51 Cowane St
Occupation: River Police Dairyman
ED: 13
Household schedule number: 94
Line: 15
Roll: CSSCT1901_165
William Dempster 38
Janet Dempster 27 b St Ninians, Stirlingshire
Isabella Dempster 5
Wilimin Dempster 2 daughter
James McGillvray 6
Marjory Warden 18
Maggie Murdoch 14

and his brother is in Argyll
Name: Alexander Dempster
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Coull, Aberdeenshire
Registration Number: 513
Registration district: Inveraray
Civil parish: Inveraray
Town: Inveraray
County: Argyll
Address: Maltland
Occupation: River Bailiff
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 11
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1901_179
Alexander Dempster 33
William Milne 30


all of this is useless if your man is actually born in 1868 in Edinburgh with a middle name of Herbert
also a Gardener is a type of machine gun ... but whether the man would be called a gardener I am not sure which would be closer to Edinburgh Castle but any births should be registered as I think only OS births are in the Army returns
regards lesley in Tasmania
researching : Roddick, Stewart, Combe,Lyle , Wilkie, Budge, Kirkwood,Howat, McKinlay, Gunning, Gumprecht, Mirrlees, Muckersie, Greig, Moncrieff, Pattison, Hornibrook, Teape, Brockhoff,Buchanan,

Currie
Posts: 3924
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Australia

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by Currie » Mon May 03, 2010 3:20 am

Hello Lesley,

There’s about seven mentions of those River Watching Dempster’s in the Dundee Courier between 1889 and 1900. All are to do with prosecution of Salmon Poachers.

There was a William Dempster watching the Tay. Also an Alexander Dempster, from Airlie, watching the Isla and the Tay and the Ericht. Alex. was said to be a well-known high vaulter.

Alan

kenspeckle
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:30 am
Location: born in Glasgow now living in Huon Valley Tasmania

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by kenspeckle » Mon May 03, 2010 4:00 am

Hi Alan thats where I found him initially

I passed all the stuff that I found onto williamherbert as some a bit recent to go on list The river watcher was close but not right lot

I think I have found where the Gamekeeper bit came from and the Gardener occupation the the aunties spoke of just to get it verified
I am trawling through records but have not got Edinburgh Castle as a link yet ... it may be another castle and they got mixed up its quite a family to track and so many same name need to work back from present to be certain correct people.... but I think its almost sorted fingers crossed

regards lesley in Tasmania
researching : Roddick, Stewart, Combe,Lyle , Wilkie, Budge, Kirkwood,Howat, McKinlay, Gunning, Gumprecht, Mirrlees, Muckersie, Greig, Moncrieff, Pattison, Hornibrook, Teape, Brockhoff,Buchanan,

williamherbert
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:55 pm

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by williamherbert » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:07 pm

Hi all,

I am back on the search for my ellusive grandfather William Herbert Dempster, I have recently found out from my brother and another cousin that they found a birth for William Herbert born Edinburgh Castle, approx 1898 moving to Liverpool when he was about 5yrs old. my brother and newly found cousin number 3 on my dads side of the family have since lost the bits of paper they wrote the details on, oh dear, that makes four of them with the same details, so I have possibly searched, found and added the wrong family tree details to my tree.

I no longer have access to Ancestry so cant look on there anymore.

I did write to Edinburgh Castle for any information but was forwarded to the GRO in Edinburgh. a friend on another site looked for me but could find nothing for this person's birth.

any further help regarding this would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
williamherbert

ninatoo
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:42 am
Location: Australia

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by ninatoo » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:44 am

I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if this is repeated. You might like to try the link mentioned in the following article. It mentions that employees are listed from royal residences across the UK:

http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_ge ... nline.html

Scroll to the bottom for the link to the page.

Also I found more information at this site:

http://mchardyofordachoy.com/Resources/ ... Castle.htm

He explains how to make enquiries about your ancestors by post or telephone to any of the Royal residences.

Good luck!

Nina
Researching: Easton ( Renfrewshire, Dunbarton and Glasgow), Corr (Londonderry and Glasgow), Carson (Co. Down, Irvine, Ayrshire and Glasgow), Logan (Londonderry and Glasgow)

SarahND
Site Admin
Posts: 5631
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:47 am
Location: France

Re: HELP NEEDED PLEASE

Post by SarahND » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:38 am

Hello,
This looks like the family in 1901:

1901
27 Bianca Street, Bootle, Lancashire
Herbert Demster, Lodger, 29, Labourer, born Scotland
Eliza, Lodger, 35, born Lanc, Kirkdale
Samuel, 7, born do
Herbert, 3, born Lanc, Walton
Francis, 2m 5d, born Lanc, Kirkdale

So the Scotland reference may have telescoped the generations, not an unusual thing with family stories.

On the other hand, if this is definitely not the family you are looking for, then I still want to know exactly what you know for sure (disregarding other people's suggestions) so that we can trace the line backwards with confidence. You presumably have your father's birth certificate that gives the name and occupation of his father?

The death of your grandfather, if in England, won't give much information except occupation. Where did this death take place?

Looking at an online tree at Ancestry (perhaps belonging to one of your cousins?), I see that he was supposed to have married Daisy Cooper in 1919. The marriage index record says Daisy Walker, but I see that Daisy Cooper married first to a William Walter Walker in 1914. He was a butcher, but his father Robert Walker was a garden labourer

Just wondering whether all these bits of information could be attaching to the wrong people. It wouldn't be the first time.

All the best,
Sarah

Post Reply