Pennsylvania Immigrants

[trish1]

I think everyone who has done major family research in the US deserves a gold medal - with all the states and many more counties I find it very difficult to track anyone before the 1900s. At the minute I have 2 queries

2. I have been looking for some Irish immigrants into Pennsylvania c. 1845-48. Like most of my Irish immigrants they appear to have rowed themselves in a canoe - as finding any immigration records is difficult. I have found a couple of possibles in one ship from Londonderry - however every one on board is listed as a spinster (females) and labourer (males). Many of the folks onboard are obviously families, and many of the women obviously not spinsters - was this just a custom, was it easier to get into the US if not married - or was spinster simply an adjective used for all Irish women?? One couple of interest may be on there - they are not listed together and the woman is listed next to a possible brother-in-law. She is listed as a spinster.

3. Prior to 1885, I find very few vital records for Pennsylvania - I did read at one site that the counties kept any records prior to that year. My county of interest is Carbon County - does anyone know of any online sources for same?

[SarahND]

Hi Trish,
It's all what you're used to! I find it a great deal easier to track people in the U.S. than in Scotland or England in the early days, because there are probate records existing for most counties and a much greater percent of the population wrote wills. Wonderful proof as you go from one generation to the next, since often the wills give the married name of daughters, etc. Much of the information is on FamilySearch now, but not indexed, so you need to browse through the images. Sometimes there will be an index at the beginning or end of the book and sometimes there is a separate index, so it's not too bad. I spend a lot of time paging through the images on Family Search!

I assume you have looked at their wiki page on Carbon county: https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/ ... nnsylvania

Other vital records are harder to come by and depend on the religion of the people involved. Were yours Catholic? I note that there was a large percentage of Catholics in Carbon county, no doubt due to Irish immigration.

There is a Pennsylvania Church Records database on Ancestry, but it is not complete. The records are usually available locally at the county seat, but that doesn't help you much! If you ask nicely, however, explaining that you live in Australia, someone in the local historical society might well take pity and look some things up for you.

Some more sites with information that might help:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... p_indx.htm
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pacarbon/

I know you'd probably rather do the searching yourself, but if you would like me to give it a shot, post the details and I'll see what I can find. I was born in Pennsylvania

All the best,
Sarah

[trish1]

Thanks Sarah - I had not thought about probate at all - I keep looking for vital records & discover not so many were created in early times - then I check the census & discover - like most of my irish ancestors they lied about their ages. I'm most happy for you to help - this is a family that is all over ancestry and Australian family sites - but everyone copies everyone else's incorrect records - and there are many errors - so I'm finding what I think are truths & trying to verify same. The family came from Northern ireland - so mainly protestant. Some travelled via Scotland - just to confuse. This group went to the US - leaving Mum at home in Ireland?? some of the daughters married and stayed in the US - Dad & the sons came to Australia - as did at least one daughter.

It's a bit late in my world - so I'll give you the details tomorrow

thank you for the assistance/advice

Trish

[Heather]

Another possible source:

The Carbon advocate. : (Lehighton, Pa.) 1872-1924

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83032231/


Happy New Year !

Heather

[SarahND]

Thanks for that, Heather!
I always forget about Chronicling America, although I really should have thought of it...

That said, however, I can't find any mention of the two deaths in January of 1892 that Trish and I have been discussing behind the scenes. Was hoping to find out what it was. However, there are a number of deaths listed due to diphtheria and the grippe. Maybe they both caught one of those? Or maybe you can find a mention, Trish. My eyes are not at their best tonight.

Best wishes,
Sarah

[trish1]

Thanks Heather - we've been out all day - looking for cool - about 106F - 40C in my world today. Now trying to cool the house! so will check this later

Trish

[trish1]

For anyone else like me who has trouble with the Americas - these are 2 links from Sarah that found many of my people

http://www.findagrave.com - lots for Pennsylvania - and much more than grave information

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/ ... nnsylvania - family search wiki - which I have rarely used.

I have only found 2 vital records - one a marriage in Ireland and another in Pennsylvania - but enough information from census and the other sources to verify what I wanted to check

The newspaper from Heather was a good link, but my folks appear to have been below the level at which one appears in the paper

I am left with a few small mysteries

1. Why can I not find people in the 1860 US census yet I can find them in 1850 and/or 1870/1880 - I think searching the complete town of interest may be the only solution.
2. Again census related - how do I process a woman (whose children were born 1850 through 1880), who says in one census she has 9 children, 7 living & in another 11 children 8 living - She was probably married twice - could this be the reason? I thought she only had one child from the first marriage - but perhaps 3?
3. There seem to be millions of immigration records from the UK to the world - yet looking for records from the US to Australia or vice versa does not give many finds. Then again, these immigrants were Irish & I firmly believe, probably because of their treatment by the English, they refused to tell the truth on any government form

And the family I can find nothing about other than an 1850 Census entry

1850 US Census Mauch Chunk Carbon Pennsylvania
James Wisely 27 Miner Ireland
Nancy Wisely 18 Ireland (Nancy was probably about 15-16 years)

Nancy was born Nancy Andrews (parents James Andrews and Jane Rankin). She had at least one son with James - and Nancy and that son (John) ended up in Australia where she remarried in 1871. Cannot find them travelling to Australia, can find no further trace of James Wisely. although there is one vague possible on the cemetery site (who died well after 1871) - but no proof whatsoever.

Trish

[SarahND]

1. Why can I not find people in the 1860 US census yet I can find them in 1850 and/or 1870/1880 - I think searching the complete town of interest may be the only solution.

I have a number of people I simply can't find in 1880, despite knowing that they were there. Searching the town can sometimes help, searching for anyone say, born in Ireland in a certain town. Or by first name, etc. Going image by image is a last resort, but even that doesn't always work. In every census some people got skipped for one reason or another (others were enumerated twice!) and my family seems to have all been in hiding in 1880. I was searching the other day for a friend's relative in 1940. I had the address from the city directory and found the street and houses both sides of the one in question... but that house was simply skipped!! So sometimes the person you are looking for is actually not there.

2. Again census related - how do I process a woman (whose children were born 1850 through 1880), who says in one census she has 9 children, 7 living & in another 11 children 8 living - She was probably married twice - could this be the reason? I thought she only had one child from the first marriage - but perhaps 3?

If the 11 children/ 8 living census was later, then it sounds as if she had had two more, one of whom survived, during the intervening 10 years-- or was she well past child-bearing age? Then again, we don't know who gave the information to the census enumerator each time. I doubt if anyone was deliberately lying, but just confused and remembering differently. Or it could be just a random answer from people tired of government intervention who didn't really see the point and had no idea their relatives would be looking at it centuries later!! Note also that many (including those of your lot who I was searching for the other day) were illiterate according to the census, so they couldn't check what had been written about them.

3. There seem to be millions of immigration records from the UK to the world - yet looking for records from the US to Australia or vice versa does not give many finds.

I would suppose that sailing from the U.S. to Australia would be best done from the west coast, yet Pennsylvania is awfully far from there! There must surely be more ship's lists that have not yet been put online. Let's hope that they appear some day soon.


As for the Wisely family, is this a relative or could it be Nancy in disguise?

1860
Mauch Chunk, Carbon, Pennsylvania
Margart Wisley, 30, Ireland, Cannot read or write
Joseph, 10, Pennsylvania
James, 9, Pennsylvania
Jane, 5, Pennsylvania

All the best,
Sarah

[trish1]

Hi Sarah

This has been an interesting search - the one with the 9/7 vs 11/8 children was way too old to have more - and I just double checked - she listed 11/8 in 1900 & 9/7 in 1910. This is actually one tricky lady
She was Margaret Andrews - and online searches say she married 1) Samuel? Fleming, 2) Charles Swank (2 is correct from burial records)
In 1850 Margaret is with her father & brothers - aged 12, but nearby is a Samuel Fleming aged 18.
In 1860 (I eventually found her) with Charles Swank & Annie aged 4, Philip 2 months AND Samuel Fleming aged 28
In 1870 Charles and Margaret have Annie Fleming, Philip Swank & 3 more children
1880 there are 7 Swank children - Annie has either died or married. By 1900 no children left at home
So did Annie belong to Samuel and Charles did not know in 1860 - or maybe it was another Fleming - family relationships through time are always interesting - regardless we think our families are "ordinary"

I do understand about the Census - I just find 1860 US badly written & thus badly transcribed - 1870 England gives me similar problems. These people didn't seem to stray from Mauch Chunk (although some were buried elsewhere) , so that is helpful

I hadn't thought about crossing the country for the trip to Australia - guess they could have gone via Ireland/Scotland or even Canada. There are shipping records into NSW - but I can't find these families - they may be on a ship listed in the group "Steerage 200". Such lists remind me of burial records that record "servant of Mr Brown" - and the servant loses his identity in death. These folks lost their names on the shipping lists.
If immigrants paid their own fares to Australia - no-one much cared about recording their details - if they were convicts or had assistance with the fare - they were well documented.

As for the Wisley - not sure - The child that came to Australia was a John Wisely - born c. 1852 - his death index (1933) gives his parents as John & Nancy - but the informant may have guessed that one, Nancy died in 1920. I'll see if these appear anywhere else in census records - or Australia.

Thank you for all the suggestions - hope it is not too cold in your part of the world - the US appears to be freezing - while we have just past through (glad it's over) a heat wave.

Trish

[SarahND]

An interesting family indeed, Trish!

We're having a mild winter where we are in France, but my siblings and children are currently freezing in the U.S.!
Having lived both in south India and Minnesota, I'd have to say I prefer freezing over baking, when it comes to weather You have my sympathies!

All the best,
Sarah